this post was submitted on 11 May 2025
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California wants to kill rooftop solar — all because officials duped by this flawed theory | Too many officials have bought a key utility company excuse for rising energy prices — solar "cost shift" (www.sfchronicle.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/california@lemmy.world
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[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 31 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They are just cancelling the programs where they buy excess solar energy. The solution is simple, residential batteries to store the excess yourself. It probably creates even more money for households that do create excess at peak hours since they charge more for peak energy hours.

Fuck PGE. The switch to off grid solar, panels connected to batteries that power your house, and a intake switch that only reconnects your house to the grid to top off the batteries at non-peak hours, a long with elimination of natural gas for heating, should eventually see PGE profits drop significantly.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

and a intake switch that only reconnects your house to the grid to top off the batteries at non-peak hours,

A baseload generator has a problem. It can't be ramped up or down fast enough to match the daily demand curve. Which means its output has to be less than or equal to the daily minimum demand. Their baseload generators can't push out a higher output than they have a demand for, which is the lowest off-peak demand. Everything below that minimum demand is the "base load".

To get the maximum revenue from their baseload generators, they need to artificially increase the minimum demand. They need to increase the baseload. They need you to pull in power that can only be produced by their baseload generators: solar does not work at night.

Demand shaping with solar calls for moving consumption to midday. Any plan that calls for increasing power consumption at night is harmful to solar rollout.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Harmful to THEIR solar rollout. And as I said, fuck PG&E. Let's all just get out own rooftop solar and batteries to fuck their shit up.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

No. Harmful to your solar rollout.

The increased output from their baseload generators continues through the day, reducing demand on solar. Too often, total supply outstrips demand, and we are seeing negative rates on electricity during the day. There is a surplus of power on the grid, so they don't want to buy any electricity you are producing. They blame excess solar production, but the actual cause is the output from their baseload generators is too high. It's set too high because they are driving customers to off-peak consumption, instead of letting overnight demand fall to its non-incentivized normal levels.

Overnight demand needs to fall, so that baseload generation is forced lower. Lower baseload means a greater demand for peaker plants and/or solar, and it is cheaper to buy your solar power than to run a peaker.

Any off-peak consumption you take is supporting them and hurting renewables. They are pricing those hours so low because they need the additional demand to make their baseload generators profitable.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I believe in your explanation you're saying it's their fault for how they are incentivising the timing?

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Correct.

Any grid operator offering discounts for overnight, off-peak power is a grid operator that either doesn't have sufficient solar capacity, or a grid operator trying to maximize the profitability of their baseload generators at the expense of solar expansion. With solar not being available at night, there should be a shortage of power rather than a surplus. If they have adequate solar generation, overnight power costs should be at a premium, not a discount.

They should be driving industrial loads to daytime operation that can be met by solar, not nighttime that can only be met by baseload generation or pumped storage, both of which are more expensive sources of power than solar.

The only part of your comment I was criticizing was the idea that consuming off-peak power would contribute to bankrupting PG&E. It won't. That off-peak consumption improves their profitability.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

They better buy some batteries....

[–] joekar1990@lemmy.world 30 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don’t think duped is the right word since the cpuc has pretty much green lit every rate increase. Pge has even tried to ask for another rate increase so they can pay a larger dividend on stock.

https://abc7news.com/post/pge-seeking-rate-hike-shareholders-can-profit-more/16060984/

[–] fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net 21 points 2 weeks ago

We should just take PGE in under state control already

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How about you help the consumer for once and not PG&E. Think of them last instead of first.

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Best we can do is a rate freeze at the high point to protect consumers.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

the California Independent System Operator, which runs the grid, credited rooftop solar in its decision to cancel 18 transmission projects — saving ratepayers $2.6 billion in 2018 alone.

The regulated utility model is such that the more utilities spend, the more profit they are allowed. Home solar prevents rate increases. The glorious datacenter future for utilities means discounts to AI datacenter users so that more rate increases from rationed remaining power to homes on restricted grid can be realized. Home solar also saves non solar customers money here.

Also the real reason for high CA rates is fire liability, and somehow all rate payers are being forced to subsidize forest dwellers.

[–] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Long past time for munis and local communities to start their own solar and battery storage

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

It’s because PG&E shareholders own Newsome