this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
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[–] Septimaeus 26 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I’m glad this issue is gaining broader international recognition.

The strategies we’ve used to address it online seem to have mostly forced it underground without actually stopping the spread. It’s not just a few dark corners of social media where you’ll find evidence of it, either. You’ll see it pretty regularly in some of the largest communities on Lemmy, and anywhere young men congregate.

As for how we fix it, ultimately I think the way we socialize our young people is long overdue a shift from highly gendered social role reinforcement to a more flexible empathy-centric value system. But for the young men who have already been radicalized, I think an obvious start would be deprogramming by offering them more positive masculine identities than the machismo currently served up by pop culture.

One approach could, for example, emphasize qualities that are already familiar aspects of that identity, such as responsibility to others, protecting the weak, serving a community, etc. Regardless of the approach, there’s power in expectation. IMHO the people most well-equipped to do this are the cis men of earlier generations, simply because they are who these boys instinctively look up to the most.

And if that describes you, it’s something you can start doing today by simply knowing what to look for and when to step in.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 22 points 6 days ago (2 children)

a shift from highly gendered social role reinforcement to a more flexible empathy-centric value system

"More queer woke shit." Is exactly how half the country will react. They don't want this fixed. They don't see a problem.

You're right though. 100%

[–] detun3d@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

We could more or less camouflage it under some kind of hardcore, daring and unflinching vibe. Show empathy and tolerance, but make it look like we're a fearless Sean Penn and couldn't give less of a fuck.

[–] turtlesareneat@discuss.online 9 points 6 days ago (4 children)

ironically Sean Penn is woke as fuck by anyone's standards. We desperately need that kind of energy tho, Leftist Men who have Strength, Values and Personality. Very lacking right now, and has left a terrible vacuum that's being filled with absolute red-pill garbage.

[–] medgremlin@midwest.social 4 points 6 days ago

For Youtubers, I wish H. Bomberguy would post more often because I've seen him cited as some people's animus for de-radicalization. Abigail Thorn of Philosophy Tube was another good "male role model" prior to her transition and a lot of viewers commented about how she gave them a better model of masculinity to emulate (particularly ironic as she turned out to be trans). I think FD Signifier is a good example for young black men in particular, and Devin of Legal Eagle is a fine example of a successful professional for those that are more business-minded.

[–] detun3d@lemm.ee 4 points 6 days ago

Yeah, Sean Penn is fucking amazing. 🫶

[–] Septimaeus 2 points 6 days ago

Definitely agree courage is key. These boys seem to idolize fearlessness, even when it’s clearly fake (tate), pathological (joker), self-destructive (bateman), or simply the result of having power (homelander).

Of course, real courage isn’t “fearless” at all, just the strength to defy it for a worthy cause, but that’s exactly the kind of thing they could learn from a better example like Sean Penn (afaik).

It would be extra timely too, since news these days is filled with headlines detailing the cowardice of US leadership, feeding the fascist takeover, when courage has always been the purest form of antifascism we know.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Any man who fits those is too busy getting laid non stop.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken

[–] Septimaeus 3 points 6 days ago

(Assuming US-specific) For sure, a quarter of Americans are simply too brainwashed to be of any help. Fortunately, many of those aren’t raising children anymore, but also there’s good evidence for a sizable chunk of quieter voters closer to the middle, a mixed bag of reluctant, not-fully-radicalized “fiscal conservatives” and “family-values liberals” that I’ve been waiting to hear more about in the news.

I think it’s possible the anti-woke messaging might not fully stick to them as easily, especially given a strong call to action that champions core values — integrity, responsibility, honor, strength of character, kindness, courage, and so forth — that Trumpism lacks entirely. As to why, I suspect we will witness a backlash from this middle group especially in the wake of Trumpism, or maybe sooner if they have some backbone left. If so, it could be an opportune time to lead with that sort of messaging.

[–] MoreFPSmorebetter@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Who could have predicted that constantly saying all men are trash could have negative impacts???

And to be clear in no way am excusing the behavior of people who respond in this fashion, but I can also understand how they ended up where they did.

I completely understand hating some people from any category of anything, but when you broadly blame ALL of a group you are absolutely going to alienate people who were either on your side or neutral. I think this is exactly what happened to a lot of guys. They were just sitting there minding. Their business and suddenly they are being told that they are inherently evil and shitty just because they are men. They hear it on the news and on social media. Pop culture takes a shit on them too once in awhile.

It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to see how this could end up twisting around in the minds of some of them.

I don't have the specific answers for how to combat this sort of stuff completely, but I think a good starting point would be to have more targeted criticisms as opposed to just going after an entire gender broadly. I think that has clearly done more damage for gender relations than it has helped anything so far.

Just my 2 cents as a guy who has seen some old friends who were once self proclaimed feminists now go full on into hating women. It's sad to see.

[–] joel_feila@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Sadly many of these tactics aren't new. And I don't have an idea on how to fix this. Say we ban social media. Hate groups were online before the internet was a thing. They will still find some way of community building. We could make it harder.

But at this point you have boys sone enthralled by tate they refuse to talk to female teachers. They didn't get that way just from TikTok. All the media they consume is just a gaint propaganda machine.

Even you isolate a kid from the internet their freinds are pulling them in.

[–] VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

These networks end up functioning as recruitment hubs, where young people − especially boys − are lured in by edgy memes

it has everything to do with that ^

and nothing to do with "constantly" saying men are trash.

Seriously, is this ~~"man hating dyke"~~ "MiSANdRiSt trans woman" in the room with us right now?

The fuckin ratio of Online Rightwing Recruitment to Real Existing "all-men-are-are-trash-sayer" isnt even close.

You're getting angry at bots, rare arguments promoted to top of social feeds and/or State and non-state actor troll farms.

You're really trumping up your numbers to victim blame that hard.

(This is not an invitation to debate, Ima go live my life)

[–] joel_feila@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Ok so other then large scake banning and control ocer social media how do we fix this