this post was submitted on 19 May 2025
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Spoken Varieties in Europe, c.1815 (lemmy.zip)
submitted 3 days ago by Blaze@lemmy.zip to c/map_enthusiasts@sopuli.xyz
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[–] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago (2 children)

From someone living near Frankish, Hessian, and Swabian germany, this is still accurate (for now).

I have a Syrian coworker who speaks in the thickest regiolect, and it’s incredible to watch racist old people immediately change their minds about him when he opens his mouth.

I’m also an immigrant and was complaining to a German friend about how I can understand Dialekt, I just can’t respond in turn and I felt like that was a failure in my German ability. She noted that it’s like that for Germans too, which is why it’s mostly older people who have a strong dialect (in the cities).

[–] sexy_peach@feddit.org 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah I don't have dialect pretty much

[–] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It’s about 80% of young urban Germans I know whose grandparents have a strong regiolect that they can understand, but not produce. I find that super unfortunate, but I do hear a lot of strong dialect from young people in rural areas, so I hope it’s a problem over exaggerated by a selection bias.

And my coworker has only been here around a decade, so it’s still there somewhere

[–] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago

Those grandparents did not understand, notice, care or resist the eradication of regiolects, I assume, but now it seems almost too late. I do not really understand Plattdüütsch (Lower Saxon language turned regiolect) anymore.

[–] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 2 points 3 days ago

From someone living near Frankish, Hessian, and Swabian germany, this is still accurate (for now).

As far as I know, the traditional German dialects almost have disappeared after WW2. What's remaining is people speaking regionally "coloured" variants of Standard German. E.g. Bodo Bach doesn't speak traditional Hessian, but New-Hessian.

[–] huppakee@lemm.ee 12 points 3 days ago

The attention for detail is impressive

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 3 days ago

It's probably my first time seeing one of these include information for North Africa.

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I find it offensive that this map considers Turku's "language" Finnish

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I laughed.

But there's a reason it does. It's called Varsinais-Suomi, ie "Finland Proper".

I genuinely just thought about that today, a few hours ago, and I think it's rather the same think for English speakers, just on a vastly different scale, since English isn't only spoken in England.

From the 1650's or something we've been calling ourself something the "the Actual Finns". Which is ridiculous. I don't agree with it, but it certainly is explained by the commonly prevailing attitudes around here.

The name Finland Proper has historical roots. In Early Middle Ages, in the area of the present-day Southern Finland was inhabited by three main tribes: the Finns, the Tavastians and the Karelians. The southwestern part of the country, where the Finns lived, was originally called simply Finland (Suomi in Finnish).

By the 17th century, the name Finland began to be used for a broader area, creating a need for a more specific name for this region. The earliest recorded terms for "Finland Proper" appeared in Latin in the 1650s as Fennigia specialiter dicta and Fennigia presse dicta. Later, in the 18th century, the Swedish terms Finland för sig sielft and Egenteliga Finland emerged. The modern Swedish name Egentliga Finland became officially recognized by the end of the century, while the Finnish equivalent, Varsinais-Suomi, was established around the 1850s.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Finland#Origin_of_the_name_Finland_Proper

Oh wait... now I'm rereading more of this, since the SOTE-change have they changed Finland Proper as well? Am I supposed to write "Southwest Finland" as my address currently..? I've been using "Finland Proper", so at least that still works but..

Anyway, in much the same way Scotts or people from Wales can be upset if you'd mistake them as English, I can see how you'd be upset at them labeling this bit Finnish and the others not, despite being Finnic languages. Imagine calling an Irish bloke "English" just because he speaks English because the English forced their language on them.

The Swedes trying doing the same to Finland but we're too stubborn with our languages I guess. Also, it's not exactly as easy to take over Central Finland as it might be an Ireland that has been stripped bare.

It's not exactly the same but like... you get the point. I'm rambling about similarities, I'm not making any point here.

I do agree with you that it's kinda offensive but what else would you call it...? :/

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Alright I got a bit of a history lesson ;D Greetings from the Arctopolis

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Its unfair that your city name is so easily translated into Latin.

But I'm pretty sure I can pull this off for Turku. Åbo. Å bo. "Å" is Swedish for river (yes, non-Swedish speakers, really) and "bo" is "a residence, dwelling" as a noun, uhm...

Oh, wait, boringly it's already listed as "Aboa" in latin.

Harumph.

I would've suggested something like "Fluviodomum" if one tries to actually translate the etymology, idk about the form but combining river/stream and dwelling/residence shouldn't be that hard for some one who knows their Latin.

[–] lime@feddit.nu 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

it's missing a blob of elfdalian at the northwestern end of the dalecarlian blob. crazy dialect.

also most of the blobs of "swedish" in the north of the country would not have been recognisable as swedish from people further south. pitmål and kalixmål are basically unintelligible.

overall the original thread seems to have way too many people finding fault with the image for it to be in any way authoritative. at least the creator is willing to do more revisions.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The use of hues suggests that Polish is a North Germanic language

[–] manucode 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It could also suggest that Polish is similar to Catalan

[–] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 1 points 3 days ago

I don't speak either. So that's something both have in common.

[–] Kekobi@fedia.io 3 points 3 days ago

Thanks for posting this map. One mistake I saw: the language of Eastern Brittany is called Gallo without T.

[–] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Image is blocked. Try downloading and uploading it to lemmy instead of hotlinking to reddit perhaps.

[–] lena@gregtech.eu 12 points 3 days ago

One benefit of hotlinking is that it saves on storage usage

[–] Blaze@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)
[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I’m not sure the borders between Savoyard, Francoprovançal and Burgundian are done well.

This map suggests where I currently live was speaking Savoyard or Burgundian in the 1800s. Savoyard is a form of Francoprovençal, so the distinct regions is weird. Burgundian is a langue d’oïl, and none of the region I live in was speaking a langue d’oïl. They were speaking a local dialect of francoprovençal. Quite distinct from savoyard.