this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
135 points (100.0% liked)

politics

22212 readers
25 users here now

Protests, dual power, and even electoralism.

Labour and union posts go to !labour@www.hexbear.net.

Take the dunks to /c/strugglesession or !the_dunk_tank@www.hexbear.net.

!chapotraphouse@www.hexbear.net is good for shitposting.

Do not post direct links to reactionary sites.

Off topic posts will be removed.

Follow the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember we're all comrades here.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] WhyEssEff@hexbear.net 140 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Explaining democracy to Americans:

Imagine a Coca-Cola

[–] ikiru@lemmy.ml 85 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Fascism is when KFC only sells Pepsi.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Coca_Cola_but_Commie@hexbear.net 70 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 29 points 2 years ago

I'm sorry comrade...it must be done

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago (4 children)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 70 points 2 years ago

They put it in the only way Americans would understand.

[–] duderium@hexbear.net 66 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Democracy is when corporations own the government and buy every election and control the media entirely. I am extremely intelligent.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Othello@hexbear.net 58 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 63 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Some liberal smuglords will dislike the comparison to Coca-Cola, but it's accurate in describing how unipolar force is applied worldwide and it is simple enough for Burgerlanders to understand the metaphor enough to get mad at it.

[–] Othello@hexbear.net 33 points 2 years ago (1 children)

oh im definitely stealing it! also it being something that feels good, but you know is bad for you in the long run is perfect.

[–] hotcouchguy@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

And both murder trade unionists in the imperial periphery

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

Should be simple enough for MAGAts as well.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 50 points 2 years ago

It is quite a bit less funny when you realize Real Economists^tm^ unironically use nonsense like the Big Mac Index

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 43 points 2 years ago (2 children)

of course democracy isn't a flavor of soda, it's a beer socialism-beer

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

"and that's why the Middle East can't have any!"

  • Generic "Redneck Comedian", circa 2009.
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

pretty sure every US secretary of state has said some variation of this, but only in defense of the "democracies" of client states that openly fix elections

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

I think, to an extent, Western-style liberal democracy is never going to work in China. In any big country, it has a nearly universal tendency to turn into oligarchy.

[–] blight@hexbear.net 78 points 2 years ago (21 children)

I think you missed her point, she's saying that westerners have a narrow view of what even counts as "democracy".

Iosif V. Dzhugashvili quote

[–] President_Obama@hexbear.net 59 points 2 years ago (4 children)
[–] blight@hexbear.net 37 points 2 years ago

big if true

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 27 points 2 years ago
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 38 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Also a poet, librarian-archivist, a teacher, and a journalist.

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago

Ah, nice, a fellow mod and a fellow CPUSA member!

load more comments (19 replies)
[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 68 points 2 years ago

china is much more of a democracy than the United States has ever been

Death to America

[–] Pluto@hexbear.net 67 points 2 years ago (19 children)

China is a democracy though.

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I am a Chinese person.

The traditional Western definition of a democracy is "a form of government where power is vested in the people and expressed through elections". By this definition, China is highly undemocratic because there aren't genuine competitive elections on any level.

The word "democracy" (民主) as used in Mainland China means "a system of government where leaders respond to the needs and demands of the people". This is slightly different in that a government doesn't need to be elected to be democratic, it just needs to be responsive to popular demand. China's government, especially at local levels, is very responsive to local demands, even more so than in the USA (have experienced both personally). So by this slightly different definition, China is democratic.

In Western political philosophy, China's definition is actually "benevolent government", not "democracy". You can argue that being democratic would actually just be meaningless under the Western definitions if the government isn't benevolent, and I would agree wholeheartedly. But unfortunately English sticks to the Western definitions which is why the statement "China is democratic" will raise eyebrows when said to a crowd of English speakers.

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 26 points 2 years ago

In America you can change the party but not the policies. In China, you can change the policies but not the party.

[–] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Democracy, the way you and western chauvinists describe it, is nonsense. "Power is vested in the people" is absolutely meaningless apart from a government doing what is desired. In all western countries, these 2 requirements come in complete contradiction. Elections only allow you to choose someone who will not do what you really want and need materially anyways (because their interests are only to convince you once in 4 years to vote for them, but each party is only really competing against the party next to them, and so both move simultaneously in the direction of helping those in power and the ratchet stays). China's definition is much more truthful. Democracy can only be measured by how it achieves what it's populace desires. China is leagues ahead of the west in this way

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The idea that they're not elected is nonsensical though. They are elected at the local level, and then climb.

Not only that but there is absolutely no western democracy where you can replace a candidate with a simple majority vote. If we had the ability to get any candidate thrown out of their role by simple majority vote of the constituency we would have a fucking field day getting every single person in government thrown out of their positions until we got people that were actually doing what the people wanted them to do. This policy alone makes China significantly more democratic than the western democracies. Like holy shit we could get literally ANY person thrown out of government if we had that power, it would be fucking easy. We don't have that power in western systems because it's a massive pressure to keep popular support.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (18 replies)
[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Liberal democracy is oligarchic period. Liberal legal frameworks exist to allow the rich to control the playing field.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 26 points 2 years ago

It doesn’t work anywhere so yeah no surprise lmao

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago

Western-style liberal democracy

so, not a democracy?

load more comments
view more: next ›