worksofart : sigh

[+] cloudless@piefed.social 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Pffft, star trek is just as bad as star wars. Somehow people conveniently ignore everything with vulcans. Mind melds, horny/kill/die mode...

Where's that space opera switch meme? Trek is great, but it's science fiction in the same 'setting only' way that star wars is.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The Matrix somehow dodging all the bullets in this thread is fitting

[–] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ohh, I'm calling it the fuck out. It's the worst of the three mentioned. Only the first movie is good.

[–] amorpheus@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What do you mean, the first?

[–] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

[–] amorpheus@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

First implies that there are more. It used to be a common joke to ignore the sequels because they suck.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Heyyyy! The Animatrix was good!

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

That was a series of prequels, so it's safe.

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

And interquels to the sequels

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago

Kid's Story isn't

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Animatrix doubled down on "humans are an infinitely renewable power source" long after Matrix was criticized for that bad science.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What would you have them do, retcon the entire premise of the first?

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

They wrote themselves an out when Morpheus told Neo that everything he learned in the Matrix was a lie.

So yeah, Neo should have later flipped the script on Morpheus and his claim that humans were batteries. It would have pointed to a reason other than utility that machines kept humans alive. It would suggest peace was a possibility.

[–] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Ahh, I took it the other way and thought you were saying they all sucked. 😆

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Stanley is the best!

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

it’s science fiction in the same ‘setting only’ way that star wars is.

it tries to tie the progresses in science and techology to make a statement about humanity.

I don't think star wars says that except for "what if there was a gun so big you could shoot a planet?"

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think star wars says that except for “what if there was a gun so big you could shoot a planet?”

Which seems to be a smarter question than your "statement about humanity" when actually living in that humanity where all the time someone is trying to build a gun as big as possible in many contexts and interpretations.

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Seems like you're making a a bad faith argument.

Star Trek deals with lots of different technologies and their potential impacts on human behaviour; some people don't want to use the transporter or develop phobias from it, the replicators eradicate hunger and poverty (at least on earth) so society evolves to be more egalitarian, what if we could travel faster than light, etc etc.

Pew pew lasers and swords and magic is hardly technologies' potential impact on humanity, which is the point of harder sci fi.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Seems like you’re making a a bad faith argument.

Seems why? For me it doesn't seem so, and it likely won't, but maybe you can add some detail.

I dunno, for me Door Into Summer is harder sci-fi, but Foundation is harder sci-fi too, and Starship Troopers is harder sci-fi, and Dune is harder sci-fi as well, and Citizen of the Galaxy is harder sci-fi, and one can go on. Pilot Pirx is very hard sci-fi, and many other things by Lem.

Star Trek is not more similar to those than Star Wars.

Pew pew lasers and swords and magic is hardly technologies’ potential impact on humanity

Mockery is not an argument in itself and would somewhat hurt your main argument if such were made.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Dune has drugs that give people magic powers. Foundation has magic mind powers.

That's no different than Vulcan mind powers.

Dune and foundation aren't more sci-fi than Trek.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Star Trek and Star Wars are fundamentally different in their worldbuilding, storytelling and overall narrative direction, the only thing they share are spaceships and spacewar.

Maybe try watching some of the more famous Star Trek episodes and try analyzing the plot and events with a more critical eye, you will find entire interesting conversations, ethical dilemmas and perspectives you never considered unfold from doing this with the best of Star Trek.

Star Wars? This is far less commonly a fruitful endeavor to undertake (with the glorious exception being Andor of course).

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Bullshit. The Death Star novel, most of NJO, KotOR II, Allston's parts of the X-Wing series, Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest and the Last of the Jedi, Medstar and Coruscant Nights, I can go on, - there's plenty of good things.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Ok fair I meant only the main movies and tv shows, I am not comparing the full universe of Star Wars to the full universe of Star Trek, especially because didn't Disney make all of that non-canon?

Also noted, Knights Of The Old Republic II is good, I mean it was peak Bioware so definitely I will take that note.

There is a DNA that is fundamentally different to Star Trek though, an ability to be both epic and everyday, big existential war and small micro story, philosophical and then action packed. There is plenty of awful Star Trek... ooof plenty of it.. but there is also a spirit to Star Trek that I think makes it different than Star Wars which isn't to say there isn't good Scifi within the Star Wars universe.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Star Wars is about syncretic understanding of life and story and morality, - say, I'd trust a Star Wars fan who's not a humanities major to understand what anti-fascism is more than a humanities major who's not a Star Wars fan. I don't think I can describe it better than Lucas himself does, and he seems to have achieved the opening of his museum telling lots on the subject.

Star Trek I haven't watched enough to judge. But I think they are orthogonal, where Star Trek has idealism, Star Wars has life and chaos, and where Star Trek has philosophy, there Star Wars has just the story, and where Star Trek has neutrality, Star Wars has choice.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

No, you can't call Star Trek idealistic, or at least you can't contrast it to Star Wars as more idealistic.

Star Trek is VERY cynical about the capacity of humans and other sentient species to do evil.

1992

The Eugenics Wars (WWIII) begin.[14] At the height of his influence, the genetically augmented tyrant Khan Noonien Singh is said to be the absolute ruler of more than one-quarter of Earth's population. (WWIII is retconned to be in the 2050s by TNG's Encounter at Farpoint and Star Trek First Contact and to being a conflict separate from the Eugenics Wars; SNW's "Strange New World" retcons it to taking place in the 21st century, prior to WWIII.)

2026

World War III begins on Earth. Colonel Phillip Green and a group of eco-terrorists commit genocide that claimed the lives of thirty-seven million people. (ENT "In A Mirror Darkly, Part Two") (In TOS, WWIII took place in the 1990s and is established as an alternate name for the Eugenics Wars[14] while DS9's "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" had the Eugenics Wars in the 22nd century. SNW's "Strange New World" retcons the Eugenics Wars to the 21st century, but prior to the outbreak of WWIII.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek

Star Wars is far more idealistic, evil is about power and a cynical leaders that do anything to get more power... Star Trek has a consistently much more unnerving portrayal of evil as a much more nuanced force that is often irrational and difficult to resolve into pure pursuit of power that it is always attracted to it.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Star Wars has different kinds of evil. It has YV, it has Killick hives, it even has drug addicted sects. In any case that's not the meaning of the word "idealistic" I meant.

[–] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Each of these series has parts that look like the Star Wars head. The Matrix probably is the most egregious. What else is good other than the first movie?

[–] GeeDubHayduke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Work, so fart.

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

works o' fart

[–] bonsai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Where my Expanse fans at? That show/book series will feed your sci fi obsession for sure.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Books yes, the show - too much neon and glossiness. I understand that this is the "futuristic" style accepted today. But it just doesn't fit my perception of the books one bit.

[–] thatradomguy@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

work so fart

[–] WiseScorpio@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Expanse

[–] snailboy@leminal.space 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Go into a room too fast, kid… the room eats you.

[–] PrimeErective@startrek.website 1 points 2 months ago

Doors and corners, kid

[–] lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Farscape

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

And Stargate

[–] Lazhward@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Captain Kirk and Darth Vader...

[–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

Lo-Pan, Superman, every single power ranger

[–] KingGimpicus@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Audible recently recommended the complete Chronicles of Narnia as a scifi series and I was personally offended. There is absolutely no place for Christianity in space besides the God emperor of mankind (dune or 40k). Absolutely disgraceful.

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

Sounds on par with the level of science education in the states, though

[–] CreativeShotgun@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Robocop the terminator captain kirk and darth vader lopan superman everysingle power ranger bill s preston and Theodore logan spock the rock doc oc and hulk hogan....

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Spacehunter's bag-babies terrified me into the sci-fi fandom for life.

[+] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

[deleted]

Sigh-Fi