this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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[–] cobysev@lemmy.world 197 points 2 years ago (3 children)

When I lived in Germany for a while, my wife and I took a train across the country one winter to Munich for the Christmas markets. We stayed in a hostel and walked the streets, enjoying the various stalls. I'd never heard of Glüwein before (hot, mulled, spiced red wine), but it was fantastic! It was an amazing experience and we didn't have to worry about parking lots or figuring out public transportation. Everything was within walking distance and we ended up touring all of Munich on foot.

I wish the US would get off its ass and get some high speed trains set up. We just need to keep oil and auto dealers out of the discussion because they keep shutting it down. Like Musk's "Hyperloop" project, which he proposed to stop legislation from approving high speed trains, but then intentionally did nothing with, so we just don't develop trains to replace his Tesla cars.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 127 points 2 years ago (5 children)

High speed trains should actually not be the primary focus of the US when it commes to public transport, city/suburban systems are more important.

Don't get me wrong, the US absolutely needs high speed rail, but without a well functioning local public transport system at both ends you end up with something that conceptually is more like an airport than a european train station.

Without local public transport, travelers still need to go by car to and from the endpoints, just like a lot of airports, this means that stations will require a lot of expensive parking, that is essentially wasted space.

Now, the US will probably allways be car dependant to a higher degree than Europe, this is due to how cities have been built, unchecked urban sprawl with little mixed use zones with few central spots makes it hard to build good metro and bus lines, where do you put the stations, where will people connect?

I won't pretend to have the answers, I absolutely don't, but I know that regardless of how public transport is established in new and existing neighbourhoods there will be angry people, but lets just make sure that the happy people outnumber them

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

100% without local city restructuring with mixed zoning and suburban redevelopment for proper land use, high speed rail developments will result on those stupid “middle of nowhere” train stations that are just railways from giant parking lot to giant parking lot. Completely undermining the whole point of rail that is being able to drop you off right in the middle of dense cities, which airports can't due to the logistics of flight.

[–] I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sometimes to get to work I drive one mile, park (expensively) and then take the train 8 miles, then walk a mile, carrying all the shit I need for work, including my dinner, laptop, change of clothes and 3 40z water bottles. Usually I just drive.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

You can say a lot about Stockholm, but one thing it does have is excellent public transport, fully integrated with the suburbs.

In my municipality we have a local train line and several bus lines that can take me into the city, during rush hour busses depart every 5-10 min or so from my closest bus stop, bus lanes along the highway work well and it usually takes me an hour to get to the office, 40 min during summer, this is to cover about 30km.

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[–] namingthingsiseasy@programming.dev 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Right - public transit needs to be usable in the place you're traveling to if you're going to take a train. This is why a lot of people would rather drive from, say San Francisco to Los Angeles. Suppose you were to take a train instead. Then... great?! what would you do next? You wouldn't have anywhere to go, so you'll need a car anyway. You'd either have to rent one or just skip the train and do the drive instead.

Probably a lot easier and feasible in my opinion to build the local public transit first, and then focus on the regional/national transit system.

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 5 points 2 years ago

If you're going from LA to SF you're fine. You'd take the Coast Starlight to SJ, then you'd transfer to Cal Train, and that drops you off at the Transbay Terminal in SF which gives you easy access to BART or Muni and all of the streetcar and bus lines. Owning a car in SF is more trouble than it's worth for a lot of people. I never owned one when I lived there.

Granted, SF is one of only a handful of US cities where this is true.

Heading south to LA would probably be a much bigger problem though.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Agree if by "local public transport" you mean "put things next to each other, without 18 400-car parking lots separating them"

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 year ago

To make public transport successful you need mixed use zoning, small community centers where you can connect from longer routes to more local routes, meeting places with a few shops/cafés/restaurants, parking will be needed as well, but not insane surface lots, but a garage with 2-3 levels should be fine.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I see what you're saying, but the advantage of intercity rail, not necessarily high-speed, but rail that goes from one city to another at commuter speeds, that is definitely worth having where I live. I'm in Terre Haute, IN. There isn't a ton of work here. A lot of people here make the 80-90 minute drive to either Indianapolis or Bloomington to their jobs. There is already a bus line here if people need that and, yes, it could go to more places, but Indiana used to have a robust rail network that linked the entire state and doing something like that today would have a lot of advantages. Not just the job issue, but both Indianapolis and Bloomington are desirable destinations for things like restaurants and shows and people from all over the state drive to them (and a few other small cities) very regularly because of that.

The way I see it, a lot more CO2 emissions would be reduced with intercity rail in this state and the public bus transportation in various Indiana cities is already decent.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sorry, I think you missunderstand me, I didn't mean that the US should abandon any existing rail project, but that the local public transport system if often forgotten in the talk about HSR

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[–] jasondj@ttrpg.network 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dude I’m traveling to Texas in a few months and I didn’t realize how close Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Austin are. It’s like a triangle, 2.5 to 3.5 hours between either city. Waco and San Antonio sit on the line between Austin and DFW.

These cities are linked by a rather nice highway system from what I remember last time I was in TX, but to the best of my knowledge, there’s no high-speed rail, only rail that’s slower than driving most the time.

Why? Texas should be embarrassed. Especially with Houston being so close to Galveston, which is a pretty damn good port.

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[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 149 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

This reminds me of that AskHistorian thread of someone asking where people parked their chariots when Roman citizens went to the coliseum.

[–] Neato@kbin.social 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Heh. Their palanquin or litter would drop them off and go sit in an alley or street somewhere, probably. Like how carriages in later centuries would.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Palanquins were used only by noble families, if even. Less than 1% of the population and even less than that of the amount of people who would assist to the coliseum were carried there. Almost everyone just walked.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago

i'd be very surprised if some people with carts didn't set up an impromptu bus service for events

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 25 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Iirc, chariots where only used to transport people and goods between towns and cities, being pretty rare inside cities if not completely forbidden.

[–] adrian783@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

so... they park them at city limits? it's a good question

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Trick question. They didn't, the chauffeur did it for them.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.world 64 points 2 years ago (15 children)

New Yorkers get it but that's about it.

[–] treetop@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I think Chicago is the only other US city that comes close, their transit is fantastic!

[–] mriormro@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago
[–] cole@lemdro.id 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

San Francisco always gets left out of these as well, but transit there rocks

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 2 points 2 years ago

Portland is pretty decent too. Not as good as SF, but you can reasonably get around the entire area on public transportation.

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

SF is easily as well-served by public transit as Chicago. It's the 2nd densest city in the US, behind NYC. Between Muni, the streetcars and busses and BART, there's always an easy way to get anywhere in The City. You can even jump on a cable car if that's your thing.

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[–] HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml 55 points 2 years ago

They probably assumed this is like a theme park or something and not an actual city that people actually live in year round. Cities having nice, people friendly places away from cars? Who's ever heard of that?

[–] Sorgan71@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

they dont park cars. They crush them and build new ones when they want to go somewhere

[–] 7Sea_Sailor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Completely off topic, but can anyone pinpoint this Christmas market? Looks hella cozy, but I don't recognize the buildings around it.

[–] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 2 years ago

I'd say that's the Striezelmarkt in Dresden (Germany's oldest Christmas market over 580 years old) but the big ones kinda all look like that.

By the way that's what they have to say about the posts topic on their website: "best accessibility: local public transport, on foot and by bike"

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

I believe that is Dresden.

[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is that Munich? I'm getting strong Viktualienmarkt vibes.

[–] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] nte@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

Definitetly it's the Altmarkt

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