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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/26226188
cross-posted from: https://lemy.lol/post/39626252
We have to agree where we ARE before we stand a chance to agree about what we do from here.
Frankly, it's most important they admit to themselves that they were lied to.
Even more important that someone they liked and someone they thought liked them lied to them.
Yeah. People don't just deserve forgiveness. Acknowledgement of bad behavior comes before forgiveness. That's standard operating procedure. They aren't doing that.
Right wingers fucking around: "Yeah let's deport all the ILLEGALS, lower our egg prices, and make the government fascist! MAGA!"
Right Wingers finding out: "Boohoo my benefits are cut, Canada boos at our National Anthem, and I have to sell my left kidney to buy groceries!"
Fuck these people. Conservatives were drawn in to Trump because of his hateful rhetoric and they only changed their minds when they were personally affected. They'll vote with a hard R the next election cycle anyway and don't deserve our sympathy. They were around and even voted for Trump's first administration and wanted more of his hate.
Trump openly stated he would do what he's doing now. His campaign published project 2025. It wasn't a conspiracy. They did it out in the open while crowing about doing it. There's really no excuse for not listening when he told you his plans.
You either made a mistake because you were purposely uninformed or you agreed with what he wanted to do until it started affecting you. Either way you were wrong and need to accept and admit that before serious work can be done. Otherwise it'll just happen again when the next demagogue rears their ugly head.
Working class is working class, red or blue.
Dem leadership is as pro-corporate as the current admin.
Don't underestimate the effect that propeganda ran by our very own government has on its citizenry.
Working class is working class, red or blue.
True but not relevant to what I said. Everyone of us needs to learn from our mistakes, but in order to do that we have to admit we made them.
Dem leadership is as pro-corporate as the current admin.
False, I doubt the Dems would have dismantled the government at the behest of the world's richest man (along with giving him access to all of our tax and social security records) and also not relevant to what I said.
Don't underestimate the effect that propeganda[sic] ran by our very own government has on its citizenry.
Accurate, America is one of the most heavily propagandized populations in history, but not relevant because all they had to do was listen to the words of Trump's actual campaign speeches or read his actual campaign literature to know what he was planning to do. He didn't hide his intentions, people just thought he wasn't serious about them.
“It was supposed to hurt others. Not ME!”
Gonna be real hard for me to hold hands and sing Kumbaya with a group of people who vote against democracy by elevating rapists and felons who illegally attempt to overturn elections and who have a ton of racists and sexists in their ranks.
Wouldn't have said that 10+ years ago, but they've crossed all sorts of lines since then. They don't really deserve to be forgiven.
I agree but we have to acknowledge that it's not helpful. Like there is nothing MAGA can say or do to make me think they are good people, but if we can at minimum get them to understand the propaganda they swallowed whole we can actually do better, for all of us.
MAGA are evil people.
I don't even consider them people at this point. They want to treat people like dogs and breeding mares then that's exactly how I'll treat them.
Follow the social contract or get fucked.
The problem isn't that they're bad at spotting a liar, it's what they were lied to about.
It's the transphobic, anti working class, white supremacist ideologies that allowed them to be duped in the first place. Get rid of that and we can talk.
Blame anyone but yourself. That's the American way!
Has anyone sent it to their MAGA friend and the person responded "yep, you were right"?
I understand this has good intentions, which I support, but I think this still needs to be changed. I don't care them admitting me they were wrong or were lied to, but I do want them to admit it to themselves, get past the divide and work together to fix what we have now.
I don't need anyone to admit anything. I see maga voters getting on board, so apparently they already admitted to themselves they were too tired and stretched too thin, so were duped. It's not like our educational institutions do anything to help that, especially in red states. We have consistently defunded education since Nixon.
All I need is their motivation to work together. We can work out ideological differences with patience and fortitude, forgiveness and understanding, as we do that
I'm not the one that was betrayed. It's the Constitution, our fore fathers, and the millions of men and women that died for our freedom that were betrayed. None of them are here so all you can do is find forgiveness from yourself. But are you going to stand by the train tracks as an endless row of people are slaughtered or are you going to say something?
I've been saying it. And working for better. Good we're working together.
I don’t need anyone to admit anything.
It's standard operating procedure in human civilization for someone who was wrong to admit they were wrong before the person or people they wronged can work together with them.
This isn't some huge ask. They were wrong. People got hurt. They need to admit their error before they can be trusted.
I see maga voters getting on board
Do you?
It’s not like our educational institutions do anything to help that, especially in red states.
It doesn't take Einsteinian levels of genius to look around you and go "Hmmm, shit kind of sucks and we've been exclusively electing Republicans in this region my entire life." No, they'd rather blame libs in other parts of the country, or people with darker shades of skin.
All I need is their motivation to work together.
Cool. My motivation is knowing they've changed by admitting they were wrong.
We can work out ideological differences with patience and fortitude, forgiveness and understanding
They want women to be second class citizens and don't want trans people to exist. How do you propose we get past a hurdle like that?
Actions speak louder than words. I trust the MAGA voter holding a sign that says "Fuck Trump" over someone that can't be bothered to walk away from their TV or video games.
Remove all overlay words and start with... LET'S TAKE AMERICA BACK TOGETHER!
First we have to agree with who we are taking it back FROM.
The ones who have bought the lies think it's the immigrants. The ones who know better realize it's the rich.
I just also wish they’d take this as a lesson for the future. How could they have elected a convicted felon, blackmailer, narcissist, POS in the first place.
A lot of the people I know who fell for MAGA are the types to believe falling for a lie is a personal failing on their part, and will refuse to admit any sort personal failing out of whatever they think pride is.
Thank you. This is what is needed.
Edit: obviously many people are not worth the effort but not even trying is not going to help. Don't associate with Nazis, period. Not everyone who causes harm is a Nazi, however.
Also not endorsing the language 100%, however I do think this is a good start.
This sounds reasonable, but the logical conclusion of that is that the only people that associate with Nazis are other Nazis, or future Nazis (who may not realise it yet). This normalises nazism in a growing group of people because they don't have any moderate voices highlighting their more extreme thoughts and pulling them back towards normality.
Your argument also make the false assumption that Nazis are irredeemable. I'm sure some of them are. But I'm equally sure that at least some of them aren't.
We're in for the fight of our lives trying to rescue America, and I am willing to accept almost anyone as an ally, but the barebones minimum is that people who voted for Trump FUCKING DO HAVE TO FUCKING ADMIT THEY WERE FUCKING WRONG.
Yaup.
These people have cheered on the most heinous shit, you can't reconcile with that. The fuck?
Wait wait wait. So the people who support treating humans like they are disposable trash undeserving of rights if they dare stray from the very narrowly defined normative values are now okay because they changed sides? Fuck that. They still support violence against others and hate against the unknown. They are still undeserving of acceptance.
Supporting Nazis will make us all Nazis.
Country boys will be hot again once they burn those Trump flags.
"You don't have to admit you were wrong"
🤣
What an opener to appeal for unity, Jesus fucking Christ.
The American Left and Right are indistinguishable people apart from political views.
Imagine what y'all could achieve if the circlerks were united as one big fucking circlejerk. That's what Putin is blocking because GAWD DAMN was it effective in the last century.
But if unity can't be started until someone admits something they don't believe... Cool. Enjoy the dying years of your country, furled by stubbornness above all else.
I reiterate; The American Left and Right are indistinguishable people. Shouldn't that mean something for common ground sake? Shake fucking hands ffs
The American Left and Right are indistinguishable people.
One side wants to make women second class citizens and make trans people stop existing. The other wants to protect those people's rights.
If you think the American left and right are indistinguishable, you are all sorts of ignorant.
You chose to listen to the ones who lied, and ignored the ones who warned
We keep treating Rep with kid gloves. No more.
A popular older phrase...
"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."
If step one is to admit that they've been lied to, then step two has to have them admit that they were wrong in how they voted. Otherwise we'll go through this again, again, and again.
But that'll be a hard sell, as nobody likes to admit that they've been conned/taken advantage of. Thats human nature.
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They lied to themselves.
Or just grow up, admit you were wrong, and do something about it. "It'll make them feel bad!" Good, they should feel bad. They voted for an openly hostile, dumb, Russian bootlicker of a president. I just don't get this post that keeps being reposted and why coming together means forgetting how we got here.
Imagine an abusive wife trying to come back to her husband because she didn't realize she signed a prenup and wants to say she was lied to about leaving now that life is hard. Like, no, not going to take any responsibility for my temper/violence, or even say I'm going to change, let's just pretend I didn't know that punching you in the face was gonna leave a black eye because I didn't think it would hurt my hand.
Look at your retirement go! Good thing everyone who has a dick is forced to go into the dick restroom:
