I have some great memories playing dwarf fortress. It was a lot of effort but the payoff was fantastic. I don't know if I can bring myself to spent that much energy on a game again.
this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
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I know exactly how every beat of this conversation is going to go, but I'm still here for it.
I've been hearing how games are too focused on graphics since the late 1980s.
That time you remember games being all about fun? People then were complaining about how chasing visuals over gameplay was ruining games.
I know because I was there and I was complaining.
Graphics are fun and cool. I like graphics.
It all started going downhill when Nethack added color support in 1989: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHack_3.0.4#Significant_changes
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Design > graphics Also, strike the earth!
Design = graphics.
Or maybe Design(graphics).
Graphics ARE design. Barring very few exceptions, games communicate themselves visually. What the graphics look like, how they are laid out and how they convey the rules are absolutely fundamental parts of the experience-as-designed on every game, regardless of how technically complex the visuals turn out to be.
These arguments always bum me out a little, because they start from the premise that, say the people at, say, Yacht Club care less about or put less effort into what their games look like than larger devs using photorreal visuals, which should not survive looking at a single frame of their work.
Same word, different meanings. It may not be the technically correct definition of the word, but typically when people talk about "good graphics," they're talking about photorealism. In MrMobius's comment, "graphics" = high resolution, photorealism, the kind of thing the comic we're commenting under is talking about, and "design" = art direction, aesthetic.
ETA: That said, higher resolution can make already strong art direction even better. I think a large part of what makes Clair Obscur look so pretty is the juxtaposition of the surreal elements with the photorealistic graphics. Esquie sticks out to me in particular, because he looks so physically real, and also so alien.
I'm not trained in media criticism, so I'm sure someone else can phrase that better than I can
ETA more: Also, games that are designed to look as real as possible also take a lot of effort and talent. Just because Bodycam doesn't look like a comic book or a surreal painting doesn't mean it doesn't have strong art direction. It cannot be easy to make a game that looks so indistinguishable from actual body cam footage.
Well, I assume most people splitting things this way typically think of design as gameplay design or systems design.
Either way I'd argue it's a bit of a misunderstanding of both what goes into good non-photoreal visuals and of the concept of game design.
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Dwarf fortress is peak.
Design = graphics.
Or maybe Design(graphics).
I would say design ⊃ graphics.
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Graphics are cool! I just also think the story, mechanics, and game difficulty balance should have an equal amount of consideration, which seems poorly lacking in a lot of modern AAA games. A mile wide and an inch deep is a saying for a reason.
The real point where this argument falls apart is that modern AAA games almost exclusively use TAA, which ruins graphics. I’m so sick of shadows blurring and everything looking terrible and people saying it’s next level.
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Purists when an artform incorporates another artform: >:(
I'm going to be annoying for a second, but I promise to try and make it worth it: It isn't about purism or even "fun", because not all art is meant to amuse. Art is allowed to be anything, and we should treat critique of art (including games) an an exploration of what the creator was trying to do, to what extent they succeeded and how, what it makes you think of, and possible meanings. Play is merely one aspect of a game's artistic content.
The entire subject of fun in terms of game design is, artistically speaking so nascent that there is hardly any history to that field of study. We've been making up for lost time in recent decades, but the entire concept of game theory is not even a century old.
So, that was probably annoying of me. But the point I'm here to make is that "fun vs graphics" isn't really the conversation we're trying to have.
One conversation we should have is the problem that exists with how games are funded and how those financial incentives can shape the creative side in a way that might hinder what's being done with the medium. Games aren't just art, they're big business, and the conversation is taking place within the context of the tech industry, geopolitical trends, and even monetary policy. Now that the industry is so large, it often feels like creators working with big budgets are becoming risk-averse and often greedy. When traditional artists seem overly risk-averse and driven by financial incentives, the art world turns on them in a big way. Look at Anish Kapoor and vantablack.
Another conversation to have is graphics in gaming within the larger computing industry. We're at the tail end of Moore's law and the GPU market seems like it's starting to turn away from gaming towards other perceived cash cows like LLMs and generative AI. So we should not expect graphics cards to continually get better forever, or even cheaper honestly. It's been the case for decades, but the situation is dynamic.
For a long time, it seems like there has been a bad combination of forces at play in gaming: the promise of endlessly increasing computing power, and lurching shifts in monetary policy that lead initially to massive tech speculation and then periods of focusing intensely on profitability.
I think it's reasonable to predict that we're going to see smaller development budgets in gaming, increased focus on well-optimized code, a shift away from the emphasis on realism in games, or a general collapse in the "big budget" gaming industry as some or all of these fail to materialize.
Meanwhile, indie gaming has been on a hit streak. That food chain has been thriving at lower trophic levels, and no wonder. They're taking more risks, being more generous, and reaching less highly than their larger peers. It's a winning formula under tight monetary policy and the overall larger context.
I've said far too much, sorry to drop this on you.
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Dwarf Fortress has graphics now! You don't have to install the Lazy Newb Pack! What a time to be alive
I came to ask if I could still play dwarf fortress.. Now that the make it understandable to me
You can still play the ascii-version :P
The game is free, the graphics cost extra.
After seeing that docuseries on the brothers I felt even better about buying it. They seem like genuinely nice people who managed to get rich doing what they love without exploiting anyone. That's the dream right there, and I wish them and the Balatro guy happy lives
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Definitely how it feels sometimes talking to the gamers who literally care about graphics over everything. I care about gameplay..
You think games have to be fun?
You will play pathologic and fear and hunger until the situation improves
...and then there's the second Fear and Hunger, where my first run ended with the Woodsman because I chopped off the arm holding the giant axe instead of killing his dick, and then the dick detached and went all Alien face hugger and stunned me while he beat me up with his remaining arm.
Of course I like explaining Pathologic to people as "the game that looks at a glance like it's an FPS adjacent RPG but in which when you first get a gun you will probably immediately sell it to buy some bread". Fucking plague caused by an infected wound in a very unusual location.
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I see both sides of the argument and generally lean on the older games are fun side, but my God, just let people enjoy what they want. Gaming eletism is so annoying and doesn't even stop people from playing new games anyways.
Get them knowledge that duenvo is an issue, not that they should be still playing super mario bros 1 or snake on a Nokia if they want to own their games.
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Shoutout to Caves of Qud, because it wasn't mentioned yet. I've been looking for a game that comes close to ZAngband which I played in the 90s. COQ has a tileset, so it's not ASCII and I didn't like the looks at first but it's fun when you see how deep it is. Complex character creation, quests, factions, 'bosses'.. I think the world map is not randomly generated, the rest is afaik (ruins, multi-levelled lairs, most villages..).
And yet Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is both super fun and breathtakingly beautiful
It's also proof you don't need a massive team and an obscene budget to push good looks
You only really need those for massive open world projects like gta
Largely because it has such strong art direction. They really make use of the high resolution to make the humans look more human, and the non-humans look more alien
That said, if I have one criticism about the game, it's that there isn't really a lot of cohesion between character/creature designs. It's the same thing that bugged me about Stellar Blade, as opposed to something like Nier Automata or Gears of War. The nevrons don't really look like they belong in the game the way locusts do in Gears.
But I am only in Act 2. Maybe this criticism will wane as I learn more about them
I feel like the older, pixel sparse graphical style is making a comeback.
A lot of recent surprise hits were of that style:
Valheim is also a game that's low pixel count but due to sweeping landscapes and amazing lighting is gorgeous.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2134320/ENA_Dream_BBQ/
Just wish it was a bit longer, but for the price of free I can't complain. I suggest going in blind and high if that's your thing.
Growing up, one of my best friends parents set us up with a terminal MUD connection. Basically an old school, text based only MMO. You had to type in your commands, "look north", "walk east", "attack ". I was able to make a Sayian character, walk around town and Kamehameha my foes. I recall finding Smurf village and getting killed many times by Papa Smurf.
I wish I remembered what server it was or if any even exist any more.
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Graphics are cool, but I'd rather prefer a fun game over a good looking game
First, I can't afford a new computer or even a new graphics card. All these "gaming on a budget" type things are all priced in USD, and I'm in Canada after conversion and the Canada tax, local shops are selling it for a lot more.... I can only imagine that going up with the tariffs.
Second, graphics ain't shit. Look at some of the most popular games around and some of them have the "worst" graphics. I don't mean to pick on any game in specific, but I'll mention two notable examples: the first is Minecraft. Square voxels and pretty basic visuals all around. Easily one of the most popular titles of all time. I don't play it, but I get it. The other example I want to point to is schedule I. Honestly the graphics in the game, when compared to the nearly realistic content that games like assassin's Creed has, and it's basically trash by comparison. The game is huge and hugely popular. The graphics, or lack thereof, is not a detractor from how fun the game is.
Don't get me wrong. High graphics can contribute to a good game; and therein lies the problem. You need to have a good game that you can apply the graphics to, in order for it to be valuable. If you take away the graphics and replace the visuals with something far more basic, and the game loses its appeal, your game sucks. Fix that first, then try again.
I have a pretty massive collection of steam titles that I'm planning to play as things start to devolve into higher and higher specs for basically no gains. Like ray tracing, it's cool, looks good... But I don't need it to have fun in a game. I usually turn it off because it compromises performance for basically no real gain. Sure, shadows look a bit more shit, and lights aren't as glowy, but I don't care about that. I just want to play. Why is RT a requirement for some games now? The hell?
Anyways. High graphics are better in more cinematic games, but publishers have gotten so obsessed with making cinematic content that they forgot to include a game with it.
Give me more substance, more character development, more scenes, not just action.
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The graphics on this comic are rough 😜
I'm in the middle of my first playthrough of Morrowind right now. Maybe I should go find a mod that makes the graphics worse. Maybe one that limits the resolution to 480p and makes everything monochrome wireframe with a viewing distance of just two or three meters.
There actually was a famous mod for an Elder Scrolls game that made it look worse: Oldblivion for Oblivion. The game had high system requirements for the time, and the mod did things like removing the 3D foliage/grass so crappy GPUs could run the game.
Graphism allows to convey story and emotion much clearer. Imagine playing baldurs gate 3 with gta4 stiff low poly faces. The character would be much less expressive and thus emotions become harder to convey.
My person in Chrysler, BG 2 existed and was just as expressive with just voice and still pictures. And half the lines weren't even voiced.
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Elin is the game you're looking for.
It's not ascii... but it is very ADOM influenced. And very japanese.
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example b
Officially created by KFC
I... wait... really?
No, really
Well oooookay then.
I mean, I guess this dating sim isn't any more weird than their TTRPG, "Feast of Legends".
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