this post was submitted on 21 May 2025
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Interesting podcast about the measles outbreaks in Alberta and Ontario. I got:

  1. The outbreaks are primarily among unvaccinated Mennonite communities.
  2. Heard immunity (thanks to vaccination) among the general population has prevented exposures from turning into infections.
  3. Provincial health ministries are avoiding talking about Mennonites because they want to avoid stigmatization.
  4. Provincial health ministries aren't holding regular briefings for political reasons.

But it's a podcast (and I'm too lazy to read the transcript) so maybe I got some of that stuff wrong.

Edit: Fixed the link to the transcript. Thanks @DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca!

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[–] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 27 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Canada has an anti-vaccination problem. It's wiiiiiild how quickly the alt-right in the US (and the big money, mainstream media, and social media amplifying them) have normalized unintelligent, selfish, anti-civilization behaviour like being anti-vaccination.

Along with the Black Lives Matter movement, people's distrust in Chump handling the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 was a big reason why the US chose Biden over Chump in 2020.

It's wild how quickly we're throwing out progress now. Mainstream news is a joke. CBC's often good but any tongue-in-cheek coverage of Chump is a disservice to our country. Mainstream social media is a propaganda chamber where the oligarch-serving alt-right and foreign disinformation and division efforts work in harmony spreading similar misinformation.

The US is making moves to restrict access to COVID vaccines (while they have stopped counting bird flu outbreaks): COVID vaccines are only approved for elderly and a few others as RFK continues to reshape how Americans fight disease

The Mennonite angle interests me. I would guess their vaccination rates haven't changed much over decades, them being very consistent in their ways and presumably less affected by recent political developments. Have their vaccination rates fallen, or were they never all that well-vaccinated but were guarded by herd immunity amongst local non-Mennonites - that acted as a fire barrier that's increasingly breaking down

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

Have their vaccination rates fallen, or were they never all that well-vaccinated but were guarded by herd immunity amongst local non-Mennonites

IIRC, previous CBC reporting indicated that the current Ontario outbreak is due to a bunch of people who travelled to NB for a wedding, which included guests from outside Canada, who had measles. It sounds like Mennonites are maintaining their longstanding anti-vax behaviour, but, in this case, they mixed with a population who had measles.

Canada has an anti-vaccination problem. It’s wiiiiiild how quickly the alt-right in the US (and the big money, mainstream media, and social media amplifying them) have normalized unintelligent, selfish, anti-civilization behaviour like being anti-vaccination.

The implication from the podcast is that the specific measles outbreak in southern Ontario is not due to new anti-vax behaviour, but previous anti-vax behaviour that has been around for decades. I generally agree with your statement, but it sounds like that wasn't the cause for this outbreak.

[–] aramis87@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm saying this without any actual proof, but I strongly suspect the Mennonite outbreak is among a group of Old Colony Mennonites. Due to pressure from various governments, Old Colony Mennonites migrated from Ukraine to the Russian Empire, then to Canada (where some stayed), and then to Mexico; this left them with a cultural distrust of governments and government agencies (such as public health agencies). They settled in rural Mexico and avoided the government and public contact as much as possible, meaning that (among other things), they managed to avoid the great vaccine push of the 1950s and 1960s, whereas more mainstream communities were educated on the benefits of vaccines and got to see those benefits in their everyday lives. When Mexico's economy deteriorated in the 1980s and 1990s, some of those Old Colony Mennonites moved to Texas and others back to Canada, where they remain in under-vaccinated pockets.

I haven't heard anything about which specific branch of Mennonites are involved in the outbreak but, as I said, I suspect they're mostly Old Colony Mennonites.

[–] Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

I’m saying this without any actual proof

You probably could have saved yourself and everyone else some time by simply not commenting.

[–] nik282000@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 days ago

Canada has a stupid problem, the willfully stupid are not only tolerated but encouraged. Being stupid by choice should be publicly embarrassing, expensive and painful.

[–] Arkouda@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

Canada has an ignoramus problem and if we don't deal with it we will end up like the US.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Provincial health ministries are avoiding talking about Mennonites because they want to avoid stigmatization.

I'm sorry, but no. Stigmatize them.

Warning : rant ahead.

You cannot both live in the modern world and require everyone to bend to your little fantasies. I get that Mennonites want to live 200 years in the past and if that's your wish, fine, but that "find" stops when we're talking about highly infectious diseases.

Even with vaccines, these diseases can still spread and infect vaccinated people or, worse, people with weakened immune systems who are more at risk anyway.

You want to continue like this? Go live on a deserted island and break all contact with the outside world or something. Well Send a research team to see how long you'll last. Better yet, drop your childish beliefs and understand that there is nothing wrong with actual science and what it gets you.

They get the fruits of science anyway, the food they eat is the result of science, they'll use glasses that exist because of science and I know that there are more enough willing to drive a car when there is a need so their "omg god rules" can be bent.

Child abuse is another reason. These children are living under the rules of parents that puts them at active risk. These parents are risking death or life disability for their child just because they can't let go of their fantasies.

And for those already furiously starting to write that I need to be more respectful of their beliefs, and how dare I question their God.... Alright, I'll play. My religion allows me to shove my privates down children's throats, any age. Should you respect me now? Of course not. I'll call my god "whazoo" because there is where I pulled him out of, just like the Mennonites, just like the Christians, just like the Hindus, and I'll write it on a piece of paper to make it official, just like the Mennonites, just like the Christians, just like the Hindus.

Yeah, it's an over the top, horrible example but FFS, can it bring the point home, please? Can people please start understanding that this is not acceptable at all, just like my example?

Come on people, ALL RELIGIONS ARE MADE UP AND YOU ONLY BELIEVE IN THEM BECAUSE YOU WERE BROUGHT UP TO DO SO. And yes, those that claimed to "be raised atheist but then saw the light of God" are either lying (why are all religious so happy to lie and cheat when it comes to their religion?) or they were told that there is a god and they mistook gullibility for critical thinking.

If right now all religions would be erased from this world, I'm sure new ones would sprout like there is no tomorrow because people love to control others and there is no control like religious control. However, NONE of these religions would resemble anything of the religions we have now because again, they're all made up.

Why do we allow people to risk children's lives because of religion? If I out a knife against a child's throat, I'm insane and I'll be arrested. If I claim that God tells me to kill the child I'll still be arrested, not because I'm insane, but because people simply wouldn't believe that God would talk to me of all people. Yet, he "did", remember reading that fun chapter? If we don't allow me to kill a child, doh, then why do we allow these people to risk the lives of children just and only just because now suddenly some random imaginary god is inserted in to the conversation?

Argh, fuck all of this. Stop being so gullible, it's the same idiocracy we see with trump being worshipped like he's jeebus himself. Never mind the rapes, lies, cheating, self enrichment, fraud, insurrection, and I can go on for a while but you get the point.

/Rant.

[–] DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That transcript is for "Is Alberta headed towards a separation vote?". The transcript you want should be at the link below, but it looks like it's empty.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/canada-has-a-measles-problem-transcript-1.7536652

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

Doh! Thanks! I'll update the link.

FWIW the link you provided has text for me on desktop.

[–] xc2215x@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Doug has to act.