"But he was only friends with Epstein because he was a Democrat back then"
this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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As somebody said yesterday, why did Epstein kill himself since there's no evidence that he did anything wrong?
How did they ever think he's not in the Epstein files? It's like thinking that the Covid-19 didn't start from Wuhan Institute of Virology.
Clever.
It's astounding how accurate this is. I spent 2016 - 2024 playing this game with a friend that I eventually cut off.
He'd parrot something insane that he didn't fact check.
I'd point out the flaws.
He'd come back with his google search results.
I'd actually read them and point out half of them disagreed with him and the other half were verifiably trash.
He'd run away from the conversation and refuse to respond to anything political I say until he forgets; cuz he never learns.
Same. I lost my 15 year best friend over this earlier this year. It still hurts and it sucks but I'm not friends with fascists
i cut off my own mom bc she thinks being trans is a jewish conspiracy and refuses to talk to me about literally anything else because i'm trans, and burnt a 15+ year friendship because he refused to have a conversation that wasn't some stupid debate-me bro culture war bullshit, even when i literally cried and begged. sucks but i can't save them, and i won't be bullied for the sake of a relationship that's clearly already over for them.
you did the right thing. stay strong, friend. 🫂
You did the right thing too. I hope you've made some new friends since all that. I've cut off the one friend and had to distance myself from other friends that enabled him. You invited both of us to your birthday party? Guess I'm not going. The good news is that this has pushed me to value my friends that aren't crazy and make more deep connections with new people. I hope you were able to make the same shift.
Tangent: I swear the best way to break down the narratives around trans people is to just make casual friends with a trans person. You naturally want to respect your friends and see them as normal people and then all the talk about bathrooms, grooming, etc just seem so silly. Years ago I felt like the bathroom arguments held water. Then I watched my trans friend just walk into the bathroom and it seemed like such a non-issue after that. Now she's one of my best friends.
It's sad cuz I've watching this guy pick up and put down 30 different interests all in a desperate search for external validation.
MAGA is a cult.
Do we know the same guy? My guy bought a bass and a bunch of music production equipment and never learned to use any of it. He's got dreams of being a writer and he hasn't written anything.
Overall he's lived in several big cities and never made friends, eventually moving back to where we used to live to be closer to his college friends (he's 30). He has struggled in his career, love, and social life and turned to Jordan Peterson. He likes reading. I think if he just joined a book club 7 years ago all of this could have been avoided because he would have made some friends.
Bruhhhh. If it weren't for the bass guitar / production equipment I'd say yes haha. Did your bro also join the trucker convoy?
No. That would be doing things. He doesn't do things. Except one time he drove two hours to visit our friends for the weekend. Except he was actually just crashing at their place so he could see Jordan Peterson live. He didn't tell them that until he was there. He's been super cagey about his politics. I got hints over the years but I figured he was starting to mellow out after the pandemic settled. Turns out he just learned not to talk politics around his friends. In January I finally confronted him about his beliefs on specific issues, hoping that I was over-extrapolating and actually he just had a few mixed views. Nope, full on fascist. We used to talk on the phone every couple of weeks. I've completely cut contact since. Sorry for venting.
Nah all good. I don't think my bro is full on fascist. I asked him directly and he acted incredulous. He's always gotten off on the being different kick; albeit out of spite. We were raised in a proto-maga church environment. Now that he perceives Christianity as anti-establishment he's got the koolaid on iv.
Him and my sister are how I know MAGAs don't listen to trump, or engage anything for that matter, directly. They've all been conditioned by their church pastor to get their opinions from someone else. That's why we're seeing this phenomenon of MAGAs waiting for their opinion on every breaking story. They don't seek knowledge, or do a single ounce of fact checking.
Some people will only learn the hard way, if that.
That's why we're seeing this phenomenon of MAGAs waiting for their opinion on every breaking story. They don't seek knowledge, or do a single ounce of fact checking.
It's worse than that, I think. From my experience with my guy, critical thinking, reason, and evidence are enemies of truth. Any authoritative voice on a subject is evidence of falsehood. The entire establishment is meant to hypnotize us into submission of the elites. The frustrating thing is, that's kind of correct. Capitalism has pushed mainstream media to be spun into propaganda. Elites (the rich) are holding increasing levels of control over society. Maga is taking this grain of truth and telling a compelling narrative about elite democrats using immigrants to get more votes. All of academia is left-wing propaganda, etc. It conveniently shifts the focus from class issues to demographic and anti-intellectual issues.
I can't disagree with any of that. All I'll add is the saying, "Religion is the opiate of the masses."
Cuz I cannot ignore the connection between evangelical/charismatic Christianity and people susceptible to MAGA bullshit.
they often posts links that easy to discredit or debunk, because they dont check the contents of the links themselves.
You just described every fucking republican I know.
This is funny, but it's not really what I'm seeing from them. They all seem real upset that the Epstien files aren't being released. So far they're mostly blaming Pam Bondi, but if Trump keeps telling them to forget about Epstien, they might abandon him. They'll bend their conspiracy theories around Trump, but if tries to break them, they'll turn on him (...or say he's been replaced with a deep-state body-double clone).
There will be a bit of whining from the more vocal faithful, as there always is, but I don't think that this time is the time they'll really turn against Trump when they're already 11+ years brainwashed and have accepted and *'art of the deal'*ed his backtracks and flip-flops so many dozens of times in the past.
It's a cult and Trump is the cult leader. They won't stick firm to their demand for the files, because the great orange one has told them that demand isn't important anymore and is giving them new things to focus on. Epstein's files aren't core to their identity, but MAGA and Trump are - one will give.
Maybe. I think a problem they've been having since the collapse of the Q account is that there is no centralizing force to help craft narratives. In the past, when Trump would make an move incongruous with their conspiracy, Q could release a cryptic statement and a series of Q influencers would step in to turn it into a something that fit the plot. Now Q is gone, and Q influencers are in the White House, so there's less cohesion behind a narrative and less excuses for why the, "deep state," hasn't been exposed. Conspiracy theories work best as an opposition movement, not a governing party.
they might abandon him
Lmao. What exactly about the past decade of American politics makes you think that this is even remotely possible? There could be real video evidence of him raping a child posted all over Twitter and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. It would be fake news, AI generated, etc. Let me be clear- these people will worship Trump no matter what. There is NOTHING that will drive the true believers away from him. Even when he dies a decent number of them will believe he faked his death and is fighting evil from the shadows and fewer still will believe he ascended to become a divine being.
What exactly about the past decade of American politics makes you think that this is even remotely possible?
I significant amount has changed over the last 10 years, including how Trump has engaged with QAnon and the conspiracy-element of his base. Early on, he didn't address or acknowledge Q, and only started dropping small dog whistles towards the community late into his first term. It was enough to keep them holding on without making direct promises.
The Q account evolved as well; they started off making bold predictions, like the imminent arrest of Clinton and other Democrats. When that became less tenable, they pivoted to vague, meaningless predictions like, "Watch the Water," or just throwing out a date with no context. The account functionally died after Trump's 2020 loss, and hasn't really been relevant since.
During the Biden years, the community pivoted towards Epstien, with promises of unredacted files, flightlogs, client lists, and video evidence proving that prominent Democrats were all part of a Q-like conspiracy. The problem is, unlike the original Q conspiracy, which was based on imagined, malleable nonsense, this was based on real events with tangible evidence, which Trump directly promised to reveal. That means that, while the conspiracy has more credibility, its goal posts are harder to move.
This is already making it hard to keep the conspiracy-pilled MAGAs happy. Early on, Bondi gave a bunch of Q influencers copies of, "the Epstien files," and when it turned out to be a bunch of information that had already been disclosed, they got pissed. They've also ripped Kash Patel and Dan Bongino apart for saying Epstien didn't kill himself and Bondi for claiming she already had the client lists. So far, it hasn't trickled up to Trump yet, but if he doesn't figure something out, it will eventually. The only thing more important to these people than Trump is the conspiracy they created around Trump, and if he doesn't find away to keep that alive, they will leave him.
I like your optimism but most MAGAts aren't conspiracy theorists. Sure, they will believe the conspiracy when it's regurgitated by Faux News and the like, but probably the vast majority don't even know what 4chan is or think that "he's a hacker" if they have heard of it.
Yes Conspiracy brained MAGAts have been focused on Epstein, but because they could use that information to 'own the libs', not because they actually give a fuck about children. If they did they wouldn't have spent the last 10 years trying to prop up a sexual predator and probable pedo.
Even if the Q Cult turns on Trump, it's unlikely that the right wing media MAGAts consume will report on it, or if they do they'll make it look like he's being attacked by evil degenerate 'hackers' online. It's not like it would be at all hard to make the case that 4chan is full of degenerates.
I think its a little more nebulous than you're making it out to be. I think there are a of factions within the conspiracy MAGAs with different degrees of dedication. Some of them are just entertaining the idea because they like calling Democrats pedophiles, while others are QAnon true-believers that have been investing in this for the better part if a decade. I'm not sure what percentage of MAGA are true-believers, but they are his most loyal followers, and I do believe he might lose them if he can't find a way to keep feeding them breadcrumbs. Plenty of MAGAs won't give a shit, but I think they're also more fickle and more likely to abandon him over something like his tariff policy fucking up their 401K.
This is just my gut feeling as someone who's been following the Q movement fairly closely since the pandemic. I could be wrong, and we'll see how it shakes out.
Plenty of MAGAs won’t give a shit, but I think they’re also more fickle and more likely to abandon him over something like his tariff policy fucking up their 401K.
Maybe, I highly doubt it though. He'll just blame that on Joe Biden and the smooth brains will claim it makes sense.
This is just my gut feeling as someone who’s been following the Q movement fairly closely since the pandemic.
Out of curiosity, why would you follow the Q movement? Like, it's clearly based on horseshit. Flat Earth theory seems almost reasonable by comparison. Seems like a giant waste of time to me.
I've always found conspiracy theories and cults interesting, and I had started hearing more about Q during lock down (I think it was the mole-children under Central Park story that caught my attention). I found a podcast called QAnon Anonymous that I started following because it was funny and informative. Over time, I started gaining a better understanding of MAGA and the right-wing ecosystem by following them. Then, in the lead up to the 2020 election, it started becoming less funny and more newsworthy, and now it just seems important towards understanding how we ended up with a fascist government.
mole-children under Central Park
WTF, lmao. God damn it now I'm going to have to look that one up.
now it just seems important towards understanding how we ended up with a fascist government.
I honestly think it has less to do with anything conspiracy theory related and everything to do with good old fashioned racism, bigotry, and hypocrisy. The only thing that could be considered a conspiracy theory type deal that contributes is "somehow"* a large number of so-called Christians have been led to believe that the U.S. was founded on Christianity. Well that and that Jesus would somehow approve of denying people healthcare and housing, the prison industrial complex, and hating foreigners.
- by "somehow" I mean this is the line of horseshit that has been fed to them by pastors/preachers/priests. I'm sure they got together at some point and planned this out, so it would count as a conspiracy.
I honestly think it has less to do with anything conspiracy theory related and everything to do with good old fashioned racism, bigotry, and hypocrisy.
These things aren't as disconnected as you might think. Conspiracy theories often create a permission structure for bigotry. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion made the internment and extermination of Jews in Nazi Germany acceptable. QAnon conspiracies about child trafficking are creating the same permission structure for the persecution of immigrants (there's a reason Kilmar Abrego Garcia is facing trumped-up human trafficking charges now).
Conspiracy theorists are also often on the front-line of fascist movements, and following Q has kept me ahead of the curve on some of this stuff. While everyone was wondering who the hell the buffalo guy was on Jan 6, I was thinking, "Of course the QAnon Shaman is here."
These things aren’t as disconnected as you might think. Conspiracy theories often create a permission structure for bigotry.
Sure propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation (which includes conspiracy theories) play a role in 'justifying' the actions of disgusting politicians in the eyes of bigots. I've already said that Trumpets will swallow up just about any bit of horseshit fed to them if it fits their worldview. I'm just not convinced it works the other way around. Once you have used such tactics to get a fascist in power I think it's much harder to 'reverse course' on that and use those tactics against the fascist. Especially in our current climate where people already have zero trust in 'the other side'.
The people advancing the whole Epstein Democrat pedo-ring 'conspiracy' were doing it to harm Democrats, not Trump. If they believed Trump had anything to do with it, they likely would have kept their mouths shut about it. They are clearly just fine with him being a sexual predator. I can almost guarantee the response by the majority of MAGAts will be 'Well if Trump says there is no conspiracy, then there is none". He's already acting as if this is 'old news' and that it's a settled matter. You really think a significant portion of his base is going to even try to hold him accountable for this?
He is currently wiping his ass with the constitution, up until this administration most so-called conservatives have been adamant that the constitution is a fantastic document that should be preserved at all costs. Once Trump was like "the constitution doesn't mean shit if it disagrees with me" what did they do? Did they demand he follow it? No, they did not.
Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than to see a large percentage of his base flip on him and finally demand accountability for his criminal actions- I've just seen no evidence whatsoever that they are willing, able, or have the moral fiber to bother doing so.
I mean, I mostly agree. I would say that most Trump supporters don't actually know what's in the constitution beyond the 2nd amendment, and that's why Trump is able to wipe his ass with it. If he were to directly say, "I don't care about the constitution," a lot of his supporters would denounce that. Similarly, I think a lot of his conspiracy supporters are willing to fold any contradictions he makes in the Epstien stuff into their conspiracy, but if he tries to denounce the conspiracy, he will be denounced. But only time will tell if they will, or if he even needs them now that he's in power.
I would say that most Trump supporters don’t actually know what’s in the constitution beyond the 2nd amendment
That is almost certainly true. Good point.
If he were to directly say, “I don’t care about the constitution,” a lot of his supporters would denounce that.
“Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Trump wrote in a post on the social network Truth Social
IDK how many MAGAt's actually read Truth social, but that can't be any more clearly stated.
if he tries to denounce the conspiracy, he will be denounced. But only time will tell if they will, or if he even needs them now that he’s in power.
He has denounced it, and it doesn't seem like he's going to reverse that position. I hope you end up being right by the way. I'm admittedly a pessimist.
I just looked the "Mole Children" thing up and it's almost as stupid as it sounds like. I guess it says something about the quality of their conspiracies when I was expecting actual half mole half human hybrids.
How do these Q idiots reconcile the fact that neither Fox News or Donald Trump has said a peep about the story? You and I both know that if he had led a rescue of 35k abused children he would NEVER shut the fuck up about it. Yet he never brought it up even in his rallies where people unaffiliated with the news could have recorded him saying it.
How do these Q idiots reconcile the fact that neither Fox News or Donald Trump has said a peep about the story?
Well, like I said, it was easier when Q was active and there were a bunch of influencers crafting a narrative. If I remember right, the public Trump was mostly an act, while behind the scenes he was a more solemn man working with, "white hats," to free children. That's where all those memes about Trump's, "sacrifice," come from.
you have no idea how much magats are into consiparacy theories, if you think its limited amount.
Like I said, they will happily believe in a conspiracy theory if it fits their worldview or it helps them clown on 'liberals', but there is a difference between people online who 'research' conspiracy theories and take them super seriously, and people who get their 'information' from Fox news.
fewer still will believe he ascended to become a divine being
I'm not actually sure that would be fewer considering the number of them that treat him like the second coming of jesus. Which is absolutely hilarious, mind you. Tell me none of these people have ever even read the damn bible...
once MSMs stop reporting the magats will forget right away, or drump up another conspiracy, that they were silenced by the dems.
Or the most likely scenario, target the names other than Trump while in the same breath giving Trump a pass... Like they do with everything.
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Is the last line a reference to 'There is no war in Eastasia'?
*Ba Sing Se
The American King invites you to Mar-a-Lago
Four legs good. Two legs better.
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Trump and Epstein had close ties without the files. There trail of evidence is sketchy without the files. Normal people don't need more to conclude Trump and Epstein shady ties. But here we are.
"...to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them..."
Hey, that sounds really familiar!
Feels more like it shows how magas mental gymnastics work so glorious leader, maga and themselves are always best.
Could be wrong though.
reality warping fields the gop posesses.
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