this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2025
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[–] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 80 points 5 days ago (3 children)

we used to do this thing called "learning".

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 45 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It's called git gudding now.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] Klear@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)
[–] jcg@halubilo.social 2 points 3 days ago

I dunno the man page lists it as git-gud

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[–] antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 97 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (11 children)

"what did students do before chatgpt?"

Is this supposed to be an actual quote? Like, someone said this unironically?

[–] JayGray91@piefed.social 50 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

"what did students do before smartphones/tablets?"
"what did students do before laptops?"
"what did students do before the internet?"

it's not at all weird to me that this could have been uttered fully seriously.

Edit: only difference are those other technologies still requires critical thinking and won't magically write your assignments. Unless plagiarized.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 24 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Grew up before the internet.

One thing I have come to realize is how much of history I learned passively from movies and comic books. The first time I saw Edgar Allan Poe was in an The Atom comic, and Julius Cesar was in a cartoon. Pretty much everyone I knew first hear classical music when they played it behind Bugs Bunny.

These days, there's a tiny handful of historically based shows and movies compared to earlier times.

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[–] salacious_coaster 86 points 5 days ago (7 children)

We haven't had LLMs that long. Are people seriously already forgetting the concept of learning skills?

[–] swelter_spark@reddthat.com 1 points 2 days ago

Since computers became common, it's seemed like an increasing number of people don't know how to, and don't think they should have to, learn skills.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 64 points 5 days ago

Nah, people have been cheating and faking it forever.

[–] YoSoySnekBoi@kbin.earth 20 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I teach collegiate intro programming classes, I can say it definitely seems that way. My office hours will be an absolute ghost town, nobody has any questions for me in class, and then when a project is due about 1/3 of the submissions are AI slop.

I know cheating has always been rampant, but I've never seen it this bad before.

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[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 5 days ago

In the U.S., the issue is that our education system is already fundamentally broken and doing a terrible job of teaching kids. Adding LLMs to that is like striking a match in the tinderbox.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 21 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

It makes the dumb even dumber. In 10 years we will see the effect of it, just like ipad babies.

[–] khornechips@sh.itjust.works 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Hate to be that guy, but you’re looking for effect here. You’re describing the effect (end result) of a change, not the affect (change) itself.

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 38 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Can confirm, in college I mostly partied and screwed around, but thanks to years of practice at procrastination I had by then developed the skill of throwing anything together at the last minute. So I could go to the library after dinner the night before a paper was due, find the right shelf, grab a handful of books and write a rough draft of an essay in couple hours. Back in the dorm by 10pm, I would make some edits, type it up (this was in the typewriter era), and turn it in on time for at least a B. But like I said, this was after years of putting off assignments in elementary and high school. Turns out this is an extremely valuable skill in office environments, where due to poor planning there's frequently some crisis that has to be solved ASAFP. People who can come through with decent work under completely unrealistic deadline pressure become all-stars. LPT: if you're actually doing that and not getting the credit and rewards you deserve, move somewhere else - you've valuable.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

People who can come through with decent work under completely unrealistic deadline pressure become all-stars.

I did this for my last company. We were about to lose our biggest client because we (not including me) had agreed to an impossible deadline to deliver a piece of software for them. I spent two weeks basically living at work and we (meaning mostly I) were able to deliver a bare-minimum product on time and keep our contract with the client alive. This kept our company intact long enough for us to be acquired by a major west coast tech giant - at which point I was rewarded with a layoff notice, while my bosses got millions in stock grants. I got a severance which was basically equal to what I would have been eligible to get from unemployment, which meant I didn't get any unemployment but at least I didn't have to pretend to look for work for six months.

I did it with no illusions about what my reward might or might not be. I just don't like being involved in any way with project failures.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

We were about to lose our biggest client because we (not including me) had agreed to an impossible deadline to deliver a piece of software for them. I spent two weeks basically living at work and we (meaning mostly I) were able to deliver a bare-minimum product on time and keep our contract with the client alive. This kept our company intact long enough for us to be acquired by a major west coast tech giant - at which point I was rewarded with a layoff notice, while my bosses got millions in stock grants.

Did this radicalize you? This would have radicalized me.

I was radicalized in the '80s. Nothing has surprised me since then.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 51 points 5 days ago (8 children)

My nephew wants to be instantly good at things and it drives me crazy. He'll roll his eyes and say "of course you're going to make that shot (in billiards) or get frustrated that's he's not amazing without practicing in martial arts, video games, golf, fitness, etc. I'm sure he'll grow out of it, but in the meantime he won't work at it or accept instruction. I'm like "yeah dude, I've done this thousands of times. Let me help you!"

[–] vivendi@programming.dev 38 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Teach him to fail. Those kids are afraid of failing because somewhere in life someone traumatized them so they don't like to ever fail at anything.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 12 points 5 days ago

I'm his uncle. Of course he's familiar with failure!

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[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 28 points 5 days ago (6 children)

My youngest (now 27) has a bit of a problem with that. The issue is that he's smart and most things always came easy to him. He'd do those giant writing assignments the night before that are supposed to be worked on for weeks and still get the high grade. Hardly ever seemed to study, but got solid A's. But when something comes along that he's not automatically good at, he gets super frustrated. He wanted to learn the guitar in high school (I play a little), so we bought him one and some basic instruction, but he hated it because it didn't come naturally. It's a decoration on his wall.

I will give him this though: he decided a few years back that he wanted to learn to draw, and that didn't come naturally, but he's continued to work at it and has gotten pretty decent. So it's something a person can get past.

[–] wisely@feddit.org 20 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

This is a common trap for intelligent people. Because of years of everything being easy you have that expectation for every situation. You never learn how to challenge yourself. Additionally your identity and social status was built on always being capable and smarter than others around you.

When suddenly you run into something that actually takes study and dedication, you just don't know how. Studying and persistence are learned skills. It's also embarrassing and causes you to shy away. Things seem impossible if you have no experience of being challenged. Depression and avoidance takes over.

Before you know it you're middle aged and never did any of the amazing things that everyone expected of you as a child prodigy. Potential was capped at the level that requires no effort.

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My wife is really smart and says she just "sees" the answer to math problems. Ask her to multiple two 3-digit numbers and she does it quickly in her head. Was never like that for me, I always have to work the process even for simple things, it's never obvious. I got a CS degree with a math minor, and took some pretty high level math classes. It was always the same for me: learn the process, then work it through, whether it's number theory or multiplying two numbers.

My wife didn't get a degree, but she went back to school as an adult. When she got to the first math class that had symbolic/algebraic notation, she ground to a halt initially. She couldn't just see the answer, and she had no practice working through the process. Was a real slog for her.

Being brilliant is a gift, but you need to learn to work the mental muscles too.

[–] Iteria@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 days ago (5 children)

This is basically why I believe that effortless As in grade school are a failure state for kids. People tell me that mu standards are too high for my kid, but I cannot express to them that now is the time for my kid to build up the ability to struggle and persevere. It's not that I have high standards. I just think that a perfect score is a sign that the task wasn't hard enough.

I saw way too many kids burn out in college because they'd never seem a grade below an A before, let alone the C they just scored. Since I was used to being pushed to my limit in grade school (not by my mother, but by teachers), I was fully prepared to work hard to barely make a B sometimes.

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[–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 15 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." - Bruce Lee

Edit, in the same spirit: "The difference between a novice and a master is that the master has failed more times than the novice has even tried." - No idea who

Follow me for more Karate Kid-level inspirational quotes.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 30 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Using chatgpt to do your school work is like paying/beating up a nerd to do your work for you. You won't learn shit, and there is a chance you'll get in trouble for cheating.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Except, the nerd will probably do the school work correctly.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 5 points 4 days ago

Not if they are smart enough to know it would be suspicious if the dumb student suddenly started getting 100℅, so they purposely fudge a few answers.

[–] jollyroberts@jolly-piefed.jomandoa.net 37 points 5 days ago (5 children)

I had a friend in high school who did the hand drawing exercise, it does work. He got really good at drawing hands.

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 38 points 5 days ago (2 children)

It works for everything. My dad made me tie a thousand knots because my shoelaces kept coming untied and now as an adult I am super in-demand in our local bdsm scene.

[–] Xaphanos@lemmy.world 19 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That did not go where I thought it would.

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[–] NABDad@lemmy.world 16 points 5 days ago

...everything else looked like shit, but the hands were amazing!

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[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 46 points 5 days ago

It's not snide to say "skills are developed with practise". You want to de-skill by letting an idiot machine say wrong stuff while you rot? Go ahead.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago (2 children)

ChatGPT land this plane with the engine failed for me. ChatGPT do this triple bypass heat surgery for me.

I’m sure that people will come up with excuses why this is different than cheating on an essay, but the point is that if one can’t study for the basic shit then doing the hard shit is going to be even harder. It’s not flipping a switch and saying “ok now I’ll take it all seriously…”. Then again, someone shirking basic work skills is probably destined for a retail middle manager job and not someone headed for radiology.

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[–] Phen@lemmy.eco.br 21 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I remember a comic I read at some point long ago, where power had gone out and a bored kid asks his grandma: "what did you do before TVs existed?" and the grandma says: "we would just sit around and wait for TVs to be invented".

I'm now using that answer everytime I see a "what did you do before ___ was invented?"

[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago (4 children)

I get the point, but often the answer to "what did you do before ___ was invented?" Is "we suffered and died". Like vaccines for example.

[–] Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works 12 points 5 days ago (2 children)

"before tv was invented? Well we went out with other kids, where adults weren't around, and got into trouble. As we got older we started fucking, and drinking, and getting into more serious trouble."

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

before chatgpt i simply didn't do all homework; if it was too tedious i said "fuck it" and left it out.

obviously that tanked my grades but i'm not in school to get good grades, i'm in school to learn interesting stuff.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago

I agree with the general idea of learning through doing. But buddy if your teaching system depends on suffering of the students, maybe them using AI is a symptom and not the problem you need to solve.

[–] Zapados@sh.itjust.works 19 points 5 days ago (4 children)
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