this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2025
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Seriously, what Israel is doing today is no different from what the Nazis did before and at the beginning of World War II, extreme nationalism, illegal expansion, annexation of foreign territory claiming it historically belongs to them, propaganda using the latest technology, terrorizing neighbors, military at the center of society.

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[–] sunflowercowboy@feddit.org 1 points 18 minutes ago

Zionism =/= Israel

Blame the culprit. They're just morally holding the world by the balls, if most western countries are christian predominantly. They bend the knee to their great spiritual grandpapa because they're run by scared old men who cling to one last fantasy. For they have abandoned all other, even humanity and kindness.

Zionist beliefs are not great in my opinion and I take a lot of issues with it, but it is the action that makes it transcend boundaries.

[–] LittleBorat3@lemmy.world 2 points 48 minutes ago* (last edited 47 minutes ago)

How do you even define that? Why is pro Russianism not banned?

What should they do after you have been found guilty of Zionism?

PS Nazism ist not banned, it's alive and well.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)
[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 21 minutes ago

That explains US for sure along with large number of Jewish billionaires and useful idiots who cosplay Christians

I didn't realize how ZIO vermin managed to infest germa by and uk. Shit is wild both essentially go against their self interest and purported value to accommodate the Israeli jews' right to he genocide Arabs, some of which are even Christians

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 5 hours ago

Nazism is only outright banned in a few democratic countries. Even in ones where it is, like Germany, there are parties that skirt around it, like AfD. Who are getting uncomfortably popular, BTW.

It's very hard to actually ban an ideology even in heavily authoritarian countries. Doubly so when it's something that's really hard to define, like Fascism. And no, the Ur-fascism paper isn't even the final word on that subject.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world -2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Old Zionism is good Zionism. Most of my life, Zionism was seen as good. After the atrocities of wwii, it was quite reasonable to support a Jewish state where they could defend themselves. For the next half century as various surrounding countries vowed to destroy them and kill them all, Zionism as the goal of a Jewish homeland seemed like a good thing.

But now Zionism is the aggressor, rather than defender, the perpetrator rather than victim. They have their own country to defend themselves and it’s mostly accepted by their neighbors but wtf are they doing to Palestinians? How can they not look back on their own history to wwii and not be horrified by what they’ve become?

[–] plant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 hour ago

Zionism has never been good

The nakba was in 1948. So Nazis would be okay if they only did a nakba and then stretched it out over 60 years? US middle school explanation

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Zionism unlike the Nazis is not a threat to western democracy. They want a Jewish state in the Middle East, which is not part of the West. As long as the West is not involved, it usually does nothing or just some arms export bans on the countries and some sanctions on leaders. Currently that is happening in Sudan, which is about as bad as Gaza, but has really nothing to do with the West. There is nothing about it in the news at least in the West.

The real intressting part is more that the West is not sitting on the sitelines, but is somewhat aiding Israel. It obviously depends on the country and some do not do it at all. However even so, you see Western countries moving away from Israel. All but the US that is.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

The only thing that might be "surprising" for some in the support for Israel by Governments in the West (not to be confused with the general population, which just about everywhere seems to be far more anti-Genocide than the politicians) is how it massivelly contrasts which the last decades of talk of Freedom & Democracy from the politicians as well as the long running official posture towards the last bunch of Genocidal Ethno-Fascists - the NAZIs - which was mainly justified on their ethnic cleansing atrocities.

For those who all along were suspicious of the former words being nothing more than self-serving propaganda from some Western nations to excuse them de facto imposing their will on the people of other lands, usually to take their stuff (most commonly, Oil), and the latter being the useful parts of the truth whilst the inconvenient parts (like, for example, how Churchill himself was a Genocider or how the US profited from the War and only really entered it because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor) were as much as possible not talked about, none of what's going on is surprising, except perhaps the pleasant surprise of the reactions of the actual population (not the politicians, especially not the governing ones) in several such countries, often going against the will of the power elites and the heavy propaganda being deployed to convince them otherwise (for example, for all the Genocide-support of the UK Government and the BBC, not that long ago there was a demonstration with half a million Britons against the Genocide - think about it: 1.5% of the British population came out in a demonstration which is entirelly for the good of somebody else, not themselves, so 100% a question of Principle).

The politicians in general are and always have been Sociopaths, but on this which is a massive issue of Moral and Principle (it's hard to come up with a stronger issue of Moral and Principle than the mass murder of children), most of the population are not Sociopaths nor are they following the Sociopaths, even in those countries were they are swamped by pro-Genocide Propaganda, some of which quite subtle and using techniques from Psychology to try and manipulate people's perceptions.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The Zionists are in charge of CIA, and CIA is in charge of every democracy. Democracies not sufficiently supportive of NATO/Israel are rogue authoritarian regimes with rigged elections, that need more CIA NGOs, and media takeover, there to help.

I am not sure how correct you are but you are probably more correct than a lot of responses.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

What Israel is doing nowadays IS different from what the NAZIs did, in that the Zionists aren't yet attacking the "superior" races.

The Humanitarianism in Western "Democracies" was always performative, the least democratic the nation the more performative it was, which I why generally you see the most support for Israel in the countries with the least democratic voting systems like the US and the UK (though present day Germany is a bit of an exception to this since they have a mixed voting system with a Proportional Vote component).

Way back in the beginning of NAZIsm the European and American elites loved the NAZIs and their ideas (for example, there is a picture of young British Princess Elizabeth, later Queen Elizabeth, being taught how to do a NAZI salute by her uncle, the then King) and it was only when the NAZIs attacked other Europeans that they turned against the NAZIs. This actually makes lots of sense as the NAZI ideas of the inherent superiority of some over others, especially along ethnic lines, were normalized in early XXth Century American and European society and very popular amongst the old-wealth elites (which naturally saw themselves as inherently superior to the rest, as that explained their higher status and priviledges in their societies - they deserved to be born into wealth because they were superior people)

We're looking back at the NAZIs from the end of a long track that included a period of propaganda heavilly against them which was necessary to inspire the population to support the war effort against them - in the period betwen then and now all the shit they did came out and none of it was reframed to seem justifiable (as is being done right now for the Zionist Genocide by many politicians and news media), quite the contrary: through some of the most powerful means to do so - dramatic films - we were made to experience and empathize with some of the pain of the victims of the Holocaust, mainly the Jewish (curiously, that of the Roma and Sindi was pretty much ignored) as well as repeatedly made to feel pride in the actions of the men and women that fought against the NAZIs in WWII and in the Resistance movements in places like France (just compare the portrayal of the Resistance Française to how Hamas is being portrayed)

I have little doubt that had the NAZIs just sticked to exterminating "lesser races" (like in the eyes of just about every Racist out there the Zionists are doing), the "pragmatism" (read, treating Principles as secondary to the Economic interests of the elites and themselves) of those in "Democratic" governments would have a lot of them justifying, reframing, denying and excusing the murderous actions of the NAZIs and claiming they didn't really do a Genocide, same as they do now for the murderous actions of the Zionists.

By the way, this also explains the massive difference in the reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the reaction to the Israeli Genocide in Gaza, even though the latter is thousands of times more murderous for civilians.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

The Humanitarianism in Western "Democracies" was always performative, the least democratic the nation the more performative it was, which I why generally you see the most support for Israel in the countries with the least democratic voting systems like the US and the UK (though present day Germany is a bit of an exception to this since they have a mixed voting system with a Proportional Vote component).

I don't think that there's any causal link there. New Zealand still doesn't recognise the Palestinian state and has arguably the most democratic voting system. Australia has just recognised it (same as the UK) but still fund it, and we have a fairly democratic voting system.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

True, I'm a bit unsure on that front.

It's true that the least democratic (in terms of voting systems) of the so-called "Democratic" nations, such as the US, UK and even Canada are invariably amongst the ones whose governments most support Israel even against public opinion, but there are several examples of countries which have supposedly much more democratic voting systems and whose governments still strongly support Israel.

Clearly how close a country is to democratic "perfection" in terms of the allocation of parliamentary representatives matching the choice of the population through their vote, is far from the full picture in terms of explaining the posture of politicians in those countries with regards to this Genocide.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Bestie, China supports Palestine and they are one of the least democratic nations. To say it has any correlation at all is ridiculous. But if you want me to go and compare the democracy index and get you a p-value I'll do it.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It's more that I think there are multiple factors, one of which is how much politicians in power represent the will of the people.

For example, a nation being allied or not to the US also seems to infliuence their support or not for Israel whilst it commits a Genocide.

I would be surprised if that p-value is close to 1, but I would also be surprised if it's close to 0.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, because pissing off the US as an ally is generally an unwanted outcome and they are staunchly pro-Israel?

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Except that for nations inside the EU that's a lot less so than for small nations outside the EU, mainly because the main tools that the US can use to pressure nations are military - which if done against Europe would very likely elicit a reaction similar to that against the Russian invasion and destroy NATO and the entire tapestry of US alliances in the West - and trade (such as Tariffs) which the if the US tries to impose on a single EU nation will, due to EU treaties, treaty elicity a response from the entire EU, a market of 470 million people on the top 25% of wealth in World terms, so that would end up costing a lot more to the US than to said nation.

Whilst it's totally understandable for small and mid-sized nations which are US allies and outside trade blocks like the EU, to just go along with US foreign policy - even as extreme as supporting a Genocidal state mid-Genocide like this - because they have no other choice, even tiny EU nations do in fact have a choice because the US would have to go against the whole of the EU to significantly hit those nations.

So whilst the likes of New Zeeland pretty much have no other options than to go along with the US on this (at the very least to just shut up and act as if nothing is happenning), the likes of The Netherlands definitelly have other options and yet their politicians have been dragging their feet on stopping support for Israel.

This is probably why all nations which are allies of the US and were almost from the start overtly against Israel and their Genocide are in the EU (such as Spain and the Republic Of Ireland).

All this to say that no one single factor decides it, IMHO.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Today, Christofascism is, if not just strongly allied to Zionist ethnic supremacy, is subservient to it. Biblical passages that validate all Netanyahu actions become the most important biblical passages, for scum like Ted Cruz to say out loud. It's a common goal to exterminate Islam. The only explanation for the confluence is Zionist money determining elections is also Zionist money determining Christian pastor sermons. It started with rapture absurdity, but it's now total agreement that Jews are the chosen people and deserve every land claim. The bribery to accept Jewish supremacy does not ever go away, and supposed rapture moment where Jews are supposed to convert to Christianity, will never come.

Gaslighting the right/christofacsits to support Israel is encouraging their violent fascist support that is useful to Israel. Anytime a Jew is harmed in America, media must do 24/7 Zionist/Israel supremacy propaganda, and so the best possible outcome for Zionism.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

My interpretation is that for the politicians involved, Religion and Political Ideology are nothing more than the means via which they manipulate other people in order to maximize their own personal upsides - the politicians playing the crowd have zero belief in those things and via their statements in those domains are merely using them as levers to be pulled in the mind of the common people to make them do what is in the interest of the patrons of those politicians.

As far as I can tell just about all that we're seeing in modern politics is explained by the Sociopaths shamelessly using Tribalism and Religion (neither of which they actually believe in) as tools to move the public in order to achieve things that either make them wealthier or which they are being forced to do because they are being blackmailed by people who have proof of them having commited attrocious deeds in the past.

Unlike for a normal person, for a Sociopath the consequences of their actions being the deaths of tens of thousands of babies are entirelly irrelevant - they couldn't give a rats arse about the suffering or joy of people who cannot pay them back for them making it happen, and for a Western politician Palestinian babies are definitely in the "whatever we do to them there will never be any payback" class.

All of this shit just feels outrageous and almost unimaginable to us because we're not Sociopaths or Psychopaths and their way of relating to other people entirelly without feeling or empathy is so alien to us that we instinctivelly do not want to believe human beings will behave like that - for example, even though logically and intellectually I know that Trump doesn't care for truthfulness or lack of it and just says whatever is convenient for him, and even given all that he has done so far, when I hear the guy there is still a part of me which wants to give him the benefit of the doubt, same as for everybody else out there, and just doesn't want to accept that somebody doesn't have a single redeamable trait. This is all me and nothing the guy: my emotional side simply doesn't want to accept that a person, any person, will have no limits to how far they will harm others for their own personal goals (because that's entirely outside my own experience), and this even while my intellect has logically conclude that they are indeed like that and even my instincts are ringing alarm bells about "dangerous untrustworthy asshole" from how he moves and talks.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago

The Neocon movement were all led by Ultra Zionists, and blessed by greatest gift ever of 9/11 for their 7 regimes in 7 years (all Israel resistant nations) war plans. RNC candidates would campaign on Christian (values) supremacy, and DNC on liberal supremacy. GWB campaigned on peace with Iraq. After 9/11, while RNC would loudly chest thump for war calling their DNC opponents weak, DNC always supported the most neocon zionist supremacist candidates with some minority (~~DEI~~) appeal for President, and quiet Neocon Zionism (justified on Apartheid ethnostate having healthcare, education and criminalization of raping Jewish women) liberal supremacism justification for Zionism/Neocon policies. Neocon liberal supremacism is behind Biden's war on Russia, demonizing Putin's corruption reforms from previous CIA puppet Yeltsin.

Direct warmongering advocacy is very rare in political races, and Trump's magik skill is "all wars will end because only I can be tough and scary". So we just vote on what the media tells us are the issues, which tend to minimize Israel/neocon war. The record funded primaries against Democrats by AIPAC were only successful when Israel was not at all spoken out loud. Some other issue/attack was the focus.

Once in office, all money for Israel/neocon war and oligarchy. No money for any pluralism campaign rally cry

[–] titanicx@lemmy.zip 26 points 17 hours ago

Looking at America, obviously Nazism isn't banned, we have elected a ton of the fuckers.

[–] snoons@lemmy.ca 68 points 23 hours ago (5 children)

IMO it's because the western oligarchs are making bank selling military tech to israel.

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[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 31 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Being a Nazi is not only not banned in most countries, in some like the US it's explicitly legal (i.e. "Freedom of Speech"). That said, it is (kinda) banned in Germany, yet they are still around over here, because you can't ban people from believing in stuff.

All a state can do is to try and prevent them from gaining too much traction, and I do not feel like Zionism has all that much tbh. Israel's recent actions are very unpopulat in the west, even though most people are not even affected by them in the slightest. Many of the people who protest them probably have no direct connection to Israel or Gaza. So what's the goal of a ban even?

I can only speak for Germany, but here an Israeli sniper and alledged murderer fled the country, bacause he is being persecuted for warcrimes, i.e. the murder of civilians. You also cannot call for the extermination of anyone without riscing consequences. This does not prevent people from being Nazis, Zionists or anything else. It just sanctions them for publicly expressing it.

[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

also because legally buying land in, and migrating back to, a country from which your descendants came is not a crime

[–] Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 10 points 18 hours ago

Because those same countries were never ideologically opposed to fascism in the first place. America was a major inspiration for Hitler, namely in its jim crow laws and eugenics. Before world war 2, America loved Hitler. And the western powers are the reason why Zionism exists as an influential ideology to begin with. Britain gave the land for zionists to colonize to begin with. All of these same countries also committed the same atrocities themselves when colonizing places like the Americas, Africa, and Asia. Liberal governments have never been opposed to colonialism, genocide, or fascism.

[–] theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world 17 points 21 hours ago

Because being involved in international politics at the state level has a similarly effect on one's morals as the One Ring

[–] collar@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago

Nazism isn’t “banned” per se, at least in the U.S. as the First Amendment does not allow for viewpoint discrimination, however repugnant a viewpoint might be. But the First Amendment does not protect against cultural, social, or other forms of non-government backlash for those who support disgusting ideologies like Nazism.

So there is no “banning” that could take place of the Zionist viewpoint, if we were to consider it on par with Nazism. By and large in the U.S., Zionism and Nazism are not seen as equally repugnant viewpoints in the cultural landscape, hence the difference in how supporters of these views are treated. Hope that makes sense.

[–] dataprolet@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

Because Zionism is not per se a problematic thing let alone comparable to Nazism. It's basically the idea that Jews should have their own nation in any form or shape. It's a national liberation movement.

What Netanjahu and his racket is making out of it is Religious or Revisionist Zionism specifically. And it's at least slightly problematic comparing that to Nazism as well.

[–] Feyd@programming.dev 14 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

t’s basically the idea that Jews should have their own nation in any form or shape.

Honestly I don't see how ethnonationalism is a positive idea no matter what the ethnicity is

[–] dataprolet@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)
[–] einkorn@feddit.org 3 points 7 hours ago

Is the idea of Palestine an ethnonationalist one, though?

Palestine as such describes the whole region of which Gaza, the Westbank and Israel are part of and historically includes a lot more people than just one specific group. Even Arab Jews who predate the arrival of many of Israels current populations ancestors.

The partition of the land was ment to create a state for Jewish people on the one hand and a state made up out of leftovers for everyone else living in the region. And everyone else is more than just "the Palestinians".

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

I mean, there's also the whole issue of the planned site for the state being occupied, and not even wanting to share with the original inhabitants.

Less problematic than Nazism, though? Sure.

[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 5 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

I mean, before starting with Zyclon-B, also the Nazis wanted the Jews to just move to Madagascar.

So I really just see a temporal offset.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 hours ago

In origins section, there were widespread European establishment plans for "solving the Jewish problem" 50 years before Hitler. Hitler's demonization of Jews was based on WW1 German Zionist treason of Germany with US/UK lobbying to join war, and Communist movement figureheads. What was anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe based on in the 1870s?

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

It's not uncommon for ethnic conflicts in general, but there's a lot of extra dimensions in the Nazi case. The Jewish conspiracy that handed WWI to the Entante, and was also behind communism somehow, was always a centerpiece of their whole ideology.

And obviously, Nazis didn't just go after Jews. They make up about half of the Holocaust and are dwarfed by random war casualties, often civilian. If they won the plan was to kill a good share of all Slavs and bring back slavery for the rest. There's nobody more recent I'd say are on the same tier except maybe ISIS.

[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

If you want to count official Hamas members as military opponents, civilian casualties in Gaza dwarf the ones of WWII in ratio.

Also, while I am not so knowledgeable about the Zionist mythos, I know that other territories and populations, which Israel already attacked repeatedly, are meant to be subjugated in the larger plan.

I guess we can all agree that getting to see how far they can resemble the nazis is not an itch we should scratch.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 hours ago

If you want to call Gaza an open air concentration camp, you can't really use it for war casualties. If you compare Israeli operations in Syria or Iran with anything the Nazis did, they look pretty good again.

There's plenty of less extreme analogies to use. Rwanda would be more defensible.

I know that other territories and populations, which Israel already attacked repeatedly, are meant to be subjugated in the larger plan.

Religious Zionists want control of all historical Hebrew areas. What they think that is varies wildly within the movement. Subjugation of the entire Middle East or whole Muslim world is where things are going if Israel is never not stopped, but nobody's claiming a right to it at this point. Jordan or Sinai are more the ones you hear about as external ambitions.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 5 points 21 hours ago

However, the problem is that these extremist influences are not a new occurrence in Zionism but have been a part of it since the beginning of the political movement. The question of how to deal with the fact there was basically no habitable place on earth left uninhabited to found a state in, was answered very differently by different parts of the movement.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

People are still pretty sorry about the Holocaust, there's Christian mysticism associated with it, the Middle East is a rough neighborhood and Zionists have used all of those things to great effect.

[–] ThunderQueen@lemmy.world 2 points 21 hours ago (4 children)

Just like most "rough neighborhoods" in the States, it is kept that way by the CIA and capital owners (ie, the empire) to uphold the threats of capitalism

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[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 9 points 23 hours ago

because Nazis was the enemy and declared war on them while Zionists are the west allies.

[–] Swordinferno@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

Well, at least here in the US it's because our politicians are openly bribed by Israel.

[–] kbal@fedia.io 5 points 23 hours ago

Because... gestures at wikipedia. It's a long story.

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

Sadly, Nazism isn't banned in most western countries.

They couldn't even get that right.

[–] First_Thunder@lemmy.zip 2 points 21 hours ago

Mostly because a lot of western nations got occupied/ bombed by the Nazis, but not by zionists

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