this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2025
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Fuck Cars

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[–] danafest 3 points 2 hours ago

My city just got it's first electric ferry! Pretty excited to give it a shot.

[–] Griffus@lemmy.zip 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Understand that I'm from a different viewpoint as a Norwegian, but saw a diesel bus a few months back, and it was a weird blast from the past to see.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 59 minutes ago)

Here in north america many of our school buses are diesel and they spit so much black smoke the back of the bus is often tinted with soot. Try not to get any respiratory conditions on your way to school kids!

[–] marquisalex@feddit.uk 11 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

My only complaint as a user (without considering any of the economics, or environmental impact) is that there has definitely been a bit of an adjustment period for the drivers - I've seen a few standing passengers go flying when the buses accelerate from zero like go-karts.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 7 points 13 hours ago

That was true of old trolley buses.

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 13 hours ago

and when the driver doesn't use the regen braking properly, resulting in a very jerky ride

[–] multi_flexi@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)
[–] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 2 points 2 hours ago

It says Iveco on the wheel.

[–] blicky_blank@lemmy.today 5 points 15 hours ago (7 children)

Does anyone feel like electric buses are a type of green washing?

I like EVs, but do they make sense for something that needs to be on the road all day? Is replacing a couple hundred diesel buses bringing thousands around a day really what should be getting targeted?

Every little helps and all, but doesn't seem like it should be considered a bug deal.

[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 1 points 40 minutes ago

I'm not sure I follow your logic. The environmental impacts of manufacturing will be averaged out faster with something that's getting a lot of use, and targeting the efficiency of something that gets continuous use has more impact.

Throwing away busses to switch would be silly, but it's a perfectly good idea to switch as you maintain your fleet. Your alternative is buying more diesel busses, which... No, building a trolley or tram system which is more expensive and less flexible, or rebuilding cities to be livable without needing vehicle transportation, which isn't happening soon and has trouble for people with mobility issues like the elderly without other some accomodation.

[–] pedz@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

Like a lot of things, this case has multiple sides and is not as simple as calling it green washing.

On one side, a packed diesel buses is far more efficient and probably pollutes less per person than an electric car with a single occupant. So in a way, it's indeed putting efforts on something that's not very high on the list of things that pollute.

On another side, diesel buses are still polluting and the local transit authority here has a multi decade plan to electrify them. It has its own studies, and studies from the nearby universities, showing that electric buses can be attractive and effective for different types of routes, and less for others. They are replacing the buses according to this plan and it's nothing to be against. I don't consider this green washing, coming from a transit society, but it's an easy target.

But yeah, electric buses from your transit society is a nice plus. However diesel buses are also just fine, and even desirable, if you use them as an alternative to driving and to reduce pollution from car traffic.

This reminds me of an old meme that I kept.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

In some places that had trams, electric buses will connect to the tram power lines and charge up a bit (or at least use less of their stored energy) while in those areas.

[–] magguzu@lemmy.pt 4 points 9 hours ago

As long as they can last all day then charge enough overnight I think they are a big improvement. Air and noise pollution sucks with diesel.

My fear is in extreme cold places, where EVs tend to have issues.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 14 hours ago

It's a somewhat low hanging fruit. And every little bit counts

We should not make perfect the enemy of good

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 13 points 13 hours ago

Diesel buses pollute badly. Both emissions and noise.

[–] urandom@lemmy.world 7 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

They are just better vehicles, both in terms of local pollution, and in terms of propulsion, even if it is green washing.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 10 hours ago (1 children)
[–] blicky_blank@lemmy.today 1 points 7 hours ago

Ah good point, I don't live next to a bus stop

[–] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 8 points 13 hours ago

Yeah, anything that does a lot of city driving and a lot of stop start is much better suited to electric than diesel. At my work - collecting waste - I drive an electric iveco tipper. Only had it a few weeks but already it's so much better than the nasty old diesel I had before.

[–] sonofearth@lemmy.world 8 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

We had a scam in our city where our electric buses were being charged by Diesel Generators.

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 11 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Which in general is a more efficient way to use the diesel than if it was in an engine. However I'm not sure in this case, as I don't know how efficient a generator would be compared to how ridiculously efficient a modern engine is. But electric engines outclass anything out there when it comes using energy.

[–] sonofearth@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago

Given the fact that India is the most polluted country in every single metric and one of the most corrupt, doesn’t make me think the generators they used were at all efficient lol.

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

if you rip out an engene from a car, then you can operate it at its most efficient rpm all the time, instead of when you happen to cross the right rpm on the right gear. So an engine powering a generator can almost always be more efficient than in a car.

This is not taking the losses in the electrical system when using the generated power in a moter to make the car move. But in a lot of cases, you still come out ahead

[–] girsaysdoom@sh.itjust.works 5 points 13 hours ago

The electrical losses are way less than the resistances of a mechanical drivetrain. It's around 10-25% lower apparently.

[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 14 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

To address the trolley bus comments - yes, they are better than battery buses, but my city already has a tram network and the bus network covers too much territory to justify putting trolley cables.

[–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 1 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

I hate to say it, but trolley cables are ugly, at least where I've seen them. It makes the streets look like old times, when each building or home had a dedicated cable going to it from a pole.
I know it's better than batteries, but is there no other way?

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Oh man, but look how much more efficient they are: You have a large, high energy network to draw from when climbing very hard hills and full of passengers.

So the bus electric motor only has to pull itself, the chassis, and the passengers up the hills, instead of all the above plus a several thousand pound battery, whose weight does not vary with state of charge.

My point is, I know you're aware they're better, but they're so much better to where it blasts appearance out of the question for me and others who understand the system.

[–] Allero@lemmy.today 2 points 12 hours ago

There is - the electric rail. It can only be used with rail transportation, but allows to transfer power without any overhead cables.

As per buses, the only thing one can imagine is wireless power transfer from under the road, but that comes with an extreme power loss.

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 28 points 1 day ago (17 children)

The best electric busses have electric lines overhead, so you don't need big batteries.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 4 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

Then you need to cable all the roads of bits networks. That seems expensive. Incidentally the tram line my city is building will be battery powered for part of its route, as they're not allowed to string pantograph wires in one area. It's mostly on wires

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 2 points 2 hours ago

The cost is wayyyy less than letting cars on the road. And continuing the climate catastrophe

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

It may seem expensive now but long term it pays off by having to not replace batteries as well as many external factors that good transit provides. I find the bigger pushback against overhead wires is how they look.

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It’s never enough for you people.

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

People love to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. They oppose incremental progress and preserve the status quo as a result.

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

It's not about being enough. Battery powered busses are very expensive and baterries need replacement and maintenance. Trolley buses are a cheaper investment in the long term. So it's frustrating when new projects choose baterry buses instead of trolley buses. It always feels like corruption to me.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

Trolley are better in a lot of cases, but not in all of the cases.

[–] Lag@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Everything converges into either crabs or trains.

[–] Verdorrterpunkt@feddit.org 11 points 1 day ago

Trolley busses are also much better for steep inclines!

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