I hope these ICE agents get locked up soon before they get them selves killed or others killed. America will be a lot safer with these thugs behind bars.
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Its... not entirely clear if the homeowner woman initially invited the doordash woman in, or if the doordash woman more or less barged her way in...
But... yeah.
This whole situation is beyond fucked.
The Gestapo is here, and they're coming to your house next.
... What will you do?
How will history judge that?
Is there some kind of immediate legal aid number you can call if something like this is happening?
I think her call to the police was correct. They did nothing, but it's possible they could have sent someone to at least mediate and deescalate while a warrant was coming through (if one was ever going to arrive). Also they could verify these are actual law enforcement people. With people running around masked and no badges and unmarked cars how the fuck would you know otherwise.
But after that having a lawyer on the phone seems like the next ideal step?
Is there some kind of immediate legal aid number you can call if something like this is happening?
No, not unless you know a cell of armed anarchists with a hotline, 80s horror movie animal masks, and a 'party' van.
Help! Government! Save me from the government!
No. No there's no help line when the government is fully armed and fully tyrannical. Everyone else's hands are tied.
The woman homeowner screaming so intently and so loudly was actually the most important thing that happened.
Because it attracted the general community, who slowly, but surely, began to filter in, then crowd in, with whistles, amplifying the general call to respond, essentially intimidating ICE by way of their being too many witnesses and potentially starting to outnumber them.
There's no fucking hotline, there's only people with a sense of duty to each other, trustworthy neighbors.
Here's the actual legality of the situation:
If ICE doesn't have a signed, JUDICIAL warrant, which they present to the homeowner, not an Administrative warrant, which they can auto produce for themselves...
... they're not allowed in the house.
Almost everything ICE is doing is completely illegal.
You can get a signed Judicial warrant, and specifically go after a specific person.
You cannot randomly pull people out of their delivery cars because they are brown.
They could possibly stop her and her family and nab them out of the car, if they specifically had a signed Judicial warrant for specifically her or her family (who was in the car with her)... but they almost never do, which means almost everything they are doing is illegal, making them actually a well organized and government backed criminal organization.
No, not unless you know a cell of armed anarchists with a hotline, 80s horror movie animal masks, and a ‘party’ van.
This reminds me of the cafe scene from the Great Escape. That's gotta be really satisfying for those French dudes.
Help! Government! Save me from the government!
That's not what I meant. I meant like does the ACLU or other organization have some number you can call if you think something illegal is happening to you by the government.
Of course the Government wouldn't have anything.
Oh, you mean to file a complaint after the crime has been committed, ok.
ACLU: For national intake, you can file online via their civil liberties complaint form: American Civil Liberties Union You may also call their national office at (212) 549-2500 or toll-free at (888) 567-ACLU.
... and, that's it! Nobody else has a phone number.
Well, other than if you want to call ICE or DHS or the DOJ and file a complaint with them, and ask them to investigate themselves.
Which is hopefully obviously laughably stupid.
There may be more local organizations with more local contact methods, I have no idea.
I meant during. Guess not.
Well maybe you can stop pretending to be some kind of legal and civics expert now...
Or are you still certain, as you were yesterday, that ICE was justified and acting legally when they uh, initiated the 'traffic stop' with Renee Good?
Am I gonna just have to keep correcting your misinformation, answering questions that can be solved by a web search in 30 seconds?
what? I was asking if there was a legal aid hotline they could call if their rights were being violated and you're the one who jumps to can i call the government and starts going off the rails.
And for the record.
Law enforcement does not need any legal justification to approach someone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._Royer
While it is legal for authorities to target and approach a person based on their behavior, absent more, they cannot detain or search such individual without a warrant or probable cause.
She was blocking the roadway. He didn't pull her vehicle over, she was already there, stopped. Ross then stopped his vehicle, and approached it. I don't even think he even said a single word to her until the other officers arrived, nor did he try to stop her from leaving at first. There is nothing illegal about that.
The second ICE officers arrived, and then started barking orders, and tried to detain her by entering the vehicle. If they had no authority based on obstructing/impeding THIS is where anything illegal begins.
Florida vs Royer is a yardstick that measures the legitimacy of a detention, search, or seizure.
It does not broadly grant any extra jurisdictional powers.
Its irrelevant to 'did ICE have legal authority to approach the vehicle.'
ICE do not have any legal justification to give a shit about a blocked roadway, unless it is specifically impeding a specifically authorized judicial warrant they are executing.
ICE, lately, generally doesn't execute legitimately authorized judicial warrants.
They execute administrative warrants.
Which specifically only grant them legal abilities directly tied to the person or place they are investigating or apprehending.
Normally, they are screened/escorted by the local police, because things like random traffic impediments can happen, and that's the local police's jurisdiction to deal with.
But they weren't.
They had no legal authority, from an administrative warrant, to approach her vehicle.
If you want to argue that they do, then you are arguing that ICE has the legal ability to approach and question anyone, anywhere within ... an unknown radius of the specific area laid out in the administrative warrant.
Thats the definition of a police state.
The whole point of the trade off between a judicial and adnimistrative warrant is that an admin warrant can be issued more rapidly, only requires clearing a lower bar ... but its limited in temporal and physical scope to where it applies, whereas a judicial warrant must clear a higher bar, but grants LEOs broader powers.
Voluntary Encounters
Street contacts
An officer may approach a citizen and have a consensual conversation and ask questions without any level of suspicion—as long as no detention is involved. An officer/citizen contact remains “voluntary” as long as the officer does not restrict the freedom of the citizen, either by physical conduct or verbal direction. Another question courts consider in assessing the voluntariness of an officer/citizen contact is whether a reasonable person would feel free to turn and walk away from the encounter. As long as a reasonable person believes that he or she can “disregard the police and go about his or her business,” the encounter remains voluntary.
Florida v. Bostick, 501 U.S. 429 (1991). If a reasonable person in similar circumstances would not feel free to leave, then the encounter has turned into a “seizure.” United States v. Ringold, 335 F.3d 1168 (10th Cir. 2003), cert. denied, 540 U.S. 1026 (2003). Simply asking a citizen for identification, without any command or show of force, remains a voluntary encounter. Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court of Nev., Humboldt County, 542 U.S. 177 (2004) (“In the ordinary course a police officer is free to ask a person for identification without implicating the Fourth Amendment.”); United States v. Drayton, 536 U.S. 194 (2002). “A police officer does not have to inform the citizen they are free to disregard any further questioning for the encounter to be consensual.” United States v. Manjarrez, 348 F.3d 881 (10th Cir. 2003), cert. denied, 541 U.S. 911 (2004).
The United States Supreme Court has ruled that mere questioning by police does not create a detention. Muehler v. Mena, 544 U.S. 93 (2005). The Supreme Court upheld the officers’ questioning of Mena, whom they were detaining while officers executed a search warrant in her residence. Officers asked Mena questions about her immigration status during a search for weapons and suspects connected to a shooting. The lower court ruled that the officers were required to have independent reasonable suspicion in order to question her about her immigration status because her status was not related to the purpose of the search warrant. The Supreme Court reversed, holding that “mere police questioning does not constitute a seizure” under the Fourth Amendment. “Even when officers have no basis for suspecting a particular individual, they may generally ask questions of that individual; ask to examine the individual’s identification; and request consent to search his or her luggage.” Though Mena was detained and handcuffed for approximately three hours, the questioning about her immigration status did not prolong her detention and did not create an additional seizure. Therefore, no independent reasonable suspicion was required to support the questioning. The Court relied on its decision in Illinois v. Caballes, wherein the Court ruled that conducting a drug detector dog sniff during a traffic stop does not violate the Fourth Amendment if it does not extend the stop beyond the time normally required to complete the purpose of the original detention. Illinois v. Caballes, 543 U.S. 405 (2005).
For example, an officer walks up to a group of high school students at a football game, suspicious that some of the students may have been throwing water balloons into the crowd. The officer greets the students and asks their names. As long as the officer does not do anything such as block the exit path, give nonverbal signals of detention, or use command language, the encounter remains voluntary. The officer may ask the students if they were involved in the balloon tossing or if they have any information, and still no detention will be created.
If the officer approaches the students and tells them not them not to move, or waves them to stop or come toward him, the officer has exercised enough control that the encounter may well be ruled a seizure. Thus, reasonable suspicion of criminal activity will be required to make the detention lawful. The difference between seizure and voluntary encounter, as well as the difference between encouraging cooperation or generating hostility, often depends on the officer’s tone and language. Remember: you can be perfectly tactically aware with a smile on your face!
This is some straight up NAZI shit for real.
Yall got any of them ~~jews~~ native Americans in your attic?
Props to that woman for not giving into the fear and standing her ground.
We're going to need a lot of people like her
This made me physically ill watching. This also proves 2 things.
First, don't let these fuckers on your property without a signed warrant. They can't do anything if you stand your ground like these people.
2nd, the police will not protect you. Even the cops on the phone told them just hand her over.
Stand your ground, ask for a signed warrant and don't listen to their fake ass threats of harboring.
Stand your ground, ask for a signed warrant
This is the best we have for now, but a month ago they weren't shooting people in the streets, I think they're up to 5 now. I suspect they'll be busting doors in before midterms hit.
They are busting doors in now.
I actually thought the cops were going to arrive to maybe mediate until a warrant was available, just to help de-escalate.
The cops were never not going to side with ICE though.
Here's another angle. If what they were doing was legal and by the books, they would already have a judicial signed warrant. All this bullshit they scream about getting the warrant...or it's on the way, is complete bullshit. There is no judicial warrant, and there will not be a judicial warrant issued to enter your property because almost every one of these people they are after are not committing a crime that justifies an instant bench warrant.
they would already have a judicial signed warrant.
I don't think that's true? They could have a judicial warrant for her arrest, but I don't think that includes any ability to enter her residence?
That would need to be a 2nd warrant wouldn't it?
To my knowledge, a signed judicial warrant does grant them access to enter their property, but I don't know if that means all property or just the home of who is getting served the warrant.
If anything, I would think then this family could have been legally charged with harboring a fugitive, but I'm unsure if that gives authorities the right to bust down any door to get to them.
From what i understand the warrant has to be specific. It would need their address.
If it was the home address of the target, but not the address of the person's house they ran into, i think it's useless, other than to at least prove to the person there is a legitimate warrant out for them, which could change their behaviour.
Like if someone had a judicial warrant for them, but not with my address on it, I'd probably act differently than if they didn't have one at all.
But wouldn't the "easy" thing in that case be to just fuck off, go to her house in the middle of the night, and arrest her there with the warrent, instead of wasting time like this?
I mean, if they have a warrent they're bound to know who she is, and I doubt this door dasher is some criminal mastermind who is going to fake their death and disappear completely during the next few hours.
How the hell do you even verify a warrant? I still wouldn't consent to a search. I wouldn't resist, sure, but I ain't opening the door.
This slide presentation from ACLU Minnesota covers that, as well as other essential know-your-rights information. Share it around with those who may need it.
https://www.aclu-mn.org/app/uploads/2017/03/ice_kyr_master_updated_4.15.pdf
Short version: make sure it's from a US District Court and signed by a judge, not an immigration officer.

Wtf even is an ICE warrant?
Seems like it holds absolutely no authority???
It's internal DHS paperwork masquerading as something with the force of law. So, yes.
should be illegal to make that look like a legal warrant.
Should have giant fucking disclaimer at the top
THIS IS NOT A LEGAL WARRANT
They can't do anything if you stand your ground like these people
No, they still can. It's not legal (for whatever that's worth these days), but they can absolutely just bust down your door anyway. We need to start treating them like they lawless criminals they are.
The system will not save you, at least not immediately. You might get let go later, after they've sufficiently punished your resistance, but that's it.
Properly signed JUDICIAL warrant.
All this and Trumps approval rating is still above 40%. Says alot
Those 40% either never heard of this or already dismissed it as fabricated. These people don't see the same news as you.
Don't discount the significant percentage of Americans that are perfectly aware of this and approve of it.
The 40% think they are in the fascist in-group. Many are finding out now they are actually in the out-group.
Funny thing about that. Happens to all the in-groups at some point, at all levels.
Ask Caesar if he was in the in-group.
Exactly. That and the "they came for us" poem is too Nazi/Germany coded for a lot of folks, and they fail to see how it applies.
I'll go as far as to say that 40% of everyone has never been bullied, or did/does try to avoid it by conforming.
This was a lesson I learned at age 9. You get bullied for whatever reason, so you try and change your behavior on the basis of the bullying. Hair, clothes, accent, likes, dislikes, whatever. The following week, the reason you get bullied changes or you outright get bullied for changing. Why? It's about power, exercising that power, and abusing others; the bully has a bottomless pit somewhere in their psychology and abuse makes them feel better about it. It was never about the stated reason. You can never make this stop by accommodation, and by all accounts, can only make things worse.
regular people trying to earn honest money, even with dogshit wages--and these are the people they're trying to convince you are the "terrorists"
I've seen this somewhere before... In a history textbook, I think...
These Brown Shirts think they won't be given the "Night of the Long Knives" treatment.
On the reddit thread yesterday (I had to go check because this video was so disturbing to me), someone said she was one of the neighbors who heard all the commotion and a bunch of neighbors came and escorted the Dasher to safety. So I'm clinging to that.
This reminds me of NOTHING except FREEDOM!
-People with Don't Tread On Me Stickers who get Upset when you call them Nazis!