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dart board;; science bs
rule #1: be kind
Whoa ho ho didn't realize I was entering the braindead takes dept
Fun fact:
Your lungs are designed to breathe AIR.
This what you mean?
Not random chemicals from a Chinese plant?
Basically, breathing in any kind of particulates is bad for you, and very fine particles (like smoke/vapor) can pass through cell walls and interact with your proteins resulting in transcription errors during cellular reproduction. For instance, asbestos fibers can tangle with and damage chromosomes [2]. The more often you do it, and the more volume you expose your lung tissue to, the higher the odds that something will go catastrophically wrong.
The link that you provided does not say asbestos fibres tangle and damage chromosomes.
It says DNA damage is from oxidation of DNA, similar mechanism to tobacco smoke. Vaping ingests Dihydroacetone, the product of heating glycerol.
Whodathunkit!
Hmm, the link to the study in the article doesn't work, so I can't read it (or check who paid for it), but it sounds like it only says that there's a chance it might cause lung cancer, it doesn't say the rate. Also:
“We’ve always assumed that vapes are safer than cigarettes, but you know, what we’re showing is that they might not be safe after all. We have no conclusive way in which to get people off the vapes.
“So in smoking, we’ve got ways in nicotine gum, various drugs that we can give people to stop them from smoking. The evidence regarding people stopping vaping is very inconclusive.”
But nicotine gums and the like also work for vaping, it's still nicotine in the end
I will add that this study looked at biological markers of inflammation and so on with cells exposed to vape vapor. If you are looking at it and saying "looks like there is activity, so maybe there is harm, more likely than not" but not saying anything about how much harm then it is not very useful for making choices. Sure, it is not without some risk, but a quantified risk assessment would say that based on the current best evidence it is likely not anywhere near as bad as smoking and it is easier to taper nicotine out if you want to do that.
From a public health/harm reduction perspective vapes may be a useful tool if used correctly, or a terrible additional harm with increased addictiveness and known dangerous chemicals, such as the popcorn lung issues. We need rational science and appropriate regulation, not panic and bizarre policies.
The ironic thing is that there are no known cases of popcorn lung associated with vaping. The condition happens if you inhale high concentrations of diacetyl (the butter flavoring in popcorn) over a long period of time. So it has been preemptively outlawed as an additive to vapes in most countries for quite some time.
The only actually known case where vaping has caused lasting and terrible damage was when black market THC vapes were adulterated with Vitamin D in California some years ago, which is highly toxic when inhaled. It had gone through the media to show the dangers of vaping in general, even though that would be like saying cigarettes should be outlawed because people got harmed from gas station spice
I mean obviously, inhaling nicotine can't be healthy or neutral for you... How does it compare to real cigarettes? 100x less bad? oh ok
You sure about that 100x?
Always remember that 87.3% of all statistics online are imaginary
Whoa there silly, it's 92.5%
I like it when people preach these conclusions. X is 100x less damaging than y so I will use x 100 more! With cigarettes now you have to go outside smoke a few and go back in. With vapes just suck on. Not to mention the new vaping liquids with the nicotine salts that are so much more addictive than nicotine from a regular cigarette.
There was a brief moment when I thought nicotine will die out but then somehow we now have bubblegum flavoured disposable vaping pens littered all over. At least we got rid of the plastic straws. Fucking twats!
could be 10x. Still so much better
The fact is we have no idea about that number, but we do have confirmation that vaping is not safe. You say "obviously" but I know people constantly are claiming vaping is either safe or way safer. It is not safe, and people really need to deal with that. Many people out there vape in such quantities that they may be harming themselves more than if they smoked, based on this "it's way better than cigarettes" idea. It's a false sense of security and we all pay when our friends and family die of lung cancer. We already have the most horrendous healthcare of the free world in America, and this "vaping isn't so bad" thing makes it even worse by putting a strain on the system and raising costs. We need to dispense with the idea already.
I understand your fear but it is not logic based reasoning. Of course it's good to be cautious. Vaping is bad.
Many people out there vape in such quantities that they may be harming themselves more than if they smoked, based on this “it’s way better than cigarettes” idea.
Many might switch from cigarettes and save their life.
but it is not logic based reasoning.
...but "it's 100x better" is? You literally are pulling a number out of your ass.
Many might switch from cigarettes and save their life.
Yes and many more will/have have started a bad habit they will never stop based on "it's not even that bad for you". This is a fact. Nicotine use has risen by scary numbers and it's well known.
Nicotine use has risen by scary numbers and it’s well known.
Is that true?
I was fairly sure I'd seen the overall numbers and that they'd risen but of course now I cannot find that. However I found data that supports my main point there which is that loads of kids are vaping and we have good reason to think they'd have avoided cigarettes if vapes weren't a thing:
From 2011 to 2022, current use of electronic cigarettes:
Increased 667% among middle school students, from 0.6% to 4.6%.
Increased 567% among high school students, from 1.5% to 10.0%. This was a 64% decrease from the peak rate of 27.5% in 2019.
In 2022, more than 825,000 children started using e-cigarettes, or more than 2,200 per day.
Source: https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends
I don't disagree
…but “it’s 100x better” is? You literally are pulling a number out of your ass.
Yes, but the claim that it's far better for you than inhaling a bonfire is not crazy. Like I said I agree, vaping most likely isn't healthy.
I guess it really depends on what you're vaping. To that end, I seriously doubt whatever's inside the sketchy disposables the majority of the public uses is 100x less bad.
I don't really think that it depends. Sure there might be a very few very toxic liquids but mostly it's just flavored glycerin and propylene glycol. Smoking a cigarette is literally like taking deep breaths over a campfire. That's a wild mixture of elements.
In other news, ground breaking research comcludes 2+2=4.
But...is it the vaping or the nicotine? Wouldn't take either but am curious
Nicotine.
Males sense....vaping sure can't be healthy, but also can't be as bad as nicotine. In whichever way you'd consume that.
Not only, but maybe mostly.
Since vaping has been around since 2006, we should have seen a whole lot of such cases, if it's likely.
Take a look at the timeline for cigarettes. The time between something causing harm and someone putting together the statistics to prove that it does is not that short. 2006 was like yesterday. Kids that started vaping as children in 2006 aren't even old enough for a midlife crisis yet.
There should still have been lots of cases. Where are they?
It takes over 25 years to see cancer effects of smoking.
But any source of inflammation is an increased risk of cancer.
It's a matter of how much attention was put on the matter before and after
Actual researches could've existed for a while or were left stagnant prior to the current trend, which attracted a fresh group of curious minds to continue where the last left off.
Actually not. Trump killed the NCI so there will be little/no research on this. Ignorance is bliss.
Then we better hope the rest of the world, which also has their own respective research agencies, step up and perform their jobs as expected.
It sucks to see the Hegemone implode, but luckily everyone from top to bottom is seeing it from a mile away.
Ignorance only lasts so long until the first pinch of fear is felt.