Dan Vavra is simply a king of dickheads, and cannot pass a single oportunity to show everyone.

Thank you. I’m a lefty myself, but leftists have such a hard time seeing that criticism of their own side actually has validity. I totally understand what this developer is saying about depicting a progressive topic without being “woke” (preachy) about it. I see the same thing in movies/shows that depict female heroes—there are some that just mad the hero a woman, and then there are others that pump the “girl power” angle, overplay the female lead, make it explicitly clear she’s better than all the male characters, bloat the script with feminist jargon, blah, blah, blah. It’s stupid. You want to do the progressive thing? Fine. Just do that. Don’t brow-beat your audience with a political message about it.

In a lot of places, not just far-right assholes, the word "woke" has taken on the role of terms like "social justice warrior" and "political correctness" - i.e. in describing a self-righteous, superficial, performative and preachy kind of style.

LOL no, "woke" is anything that acknowledges LGBT+ individuals exist and have a right to live their lives as they want is woke. These fucking snowflakes cry about being asked to pick fucking pronouns, even when there is 0 impact on the game.

Crying 'woke' instantly tells me all I need to know about someone. The same goes for people who try to pretend it's about preaching a message instead of acknowledging these people can and do exist.

What the man seems to me to be trying to say is that their goal was to do a medieval gay romance in a way that was not preachy or superficial – is that not good? Isn't there a bit too much token representation and pinkwashing going on?

And you're parroting the message loud and clear. Acknowledging their existence is always tOkEn RePrEsEnTaTiOn

So what should be the word we use for “media that depicts positive social ideologies?” Apparently “woke” includes the definition “while being super preachy about it.”

Of course, in that split, it’s also common people will call something “preachy” when a gay guy is there, and doesn’t even waste the viewer’s time. It happened to that horrible conservative animated show, as well.

Its not good, because you are now playing into the toxic norms that already exist. So its ok if straight stuff is upfront, but gay stuff has to be optional? This is completely pathetic and I will never support this, this team or game.

Dude is doing so much mental gymnastics to make himself sound superior. Again, it is really pathetic.

Now now, don't be getting all reasonable. This is the internet after all!

I'll respond because it seems like you're trying

Most guys have in mind with some gay twink trying to Hit on any guys they can.

I'm not sure how common this mental image is, but try to get it out of your head. The fact is there are some people who just want to have lots of sex with lots of people, some of these people happen to be straight, some happen to be gay, some happen to be guys, and some happen to be gals and some happen to be anywhere in-between any of the above. And that's okay, because different people are different and who cares what happens between consenting adults? And you know what else is okay? Some people don't want to have sex with anyone, some people only want to have sex with certain people, and some people are anywhere in between.

Most gay people are just normal regular everyday people with just a different preference in people that Theyd Date

All. All gay people are just people. Sexual interest is a spectrum, some people are only interested in other people of the same gender, some people are only interested in people of the opposite gender, and some people are somewhere in between, maybe mostly-straight or mostly-gay. And that's okay no matter where on that spectrum you fall.

On top of that both romantic interest and ones own gender are spectrums as well. These spectrums can have very different settings from each other and that's okay too. On the subject of gender, people have a physical and a mental gender, and sometimes those don't match. That's okay too (y'know as in it's okay to have that problem and be working to align the two in whatever way that makes them happy)

Most cis people totally envision either some annoying gay twink or a drag queen

First of all, don't use that slur. Full stop.

Secondly, drag is not a gender nor a sexuality nor a sexual or romantic interest. People who do drag are just people who do drag. They can be anywhere on the various spectrums I already outlined.

I have a feeling though that nowadays regarding representation, people that are pro gay & lgbtq do not really help at educating unaware cis people

They are trying to educate unaware cis/straight people, its just between algorithms, echo chambers and those who wish to eliminate everyone who isn't white straight cis, there's plenty of corners its not reaching.

This is not a failure of gay people, and this isn't any one gay person's job to educate the world. This is the world trying to pretend that gay people don't exist, when in fact they do exist and have existed for as long as gender and sexuality have existed

The reason we have pride is because we are in the first time in human history when anyone who isn't cis, straight, etc. isn't forced to ignore or suppress those feelings but can actually go be exactly who they want to be and be with whoever they want to be. Even now, as kids start to realize there's something different about them, they're first led to believe it's because there's something wrong with them. This might last a short time, this might last a lifetime, but pride is about squashing those self-doubt demons and shouting out to the world "I AM WHO I AM AND YOU WILL DEAL WITH IT!"

The importance of representation is in helping put the image in people's heads that it's okay to be different and that you don't have to be a white cis straight male to do certain things. Whether it's Mr Rogers sharing a pool with a black actor on a hot day, or Lt Uhura being played by a black woman in Star Trek, or Kora kissing Asami in Legend of Kora, or anything else, it's about showing and helping people know that they can be who they want to be and they can be happy about it. Media drives a sense of normalcy, so what's normal in media becomes normal in society. If it's normal for gay people to exist in media, people will see it as normal for gay people to exist in society.

Now, more on topic, Kingdom Come Deliverence is in a weird spot because it sets out to be the most realistic representation of a specific period and place in medieval history as possible. In the medieval period (and for most of history for that matter) people didn't really have an individual identity, so the idea of gay or straight people didn't really exist. They were however extremely sexist and mostly considered whoever did the penetrating to be powerful and whoever is being penetrated to be weak (and there's some hilarious historical texts where people are just generally confused about what to think of lesbians because there's no penetrating going on so did anything actually happen?) so CK:D in being an accurate period piece happens to place itself right in the crossroads of this culture war, as it presumably depicts gayness as many conservatives would prefer, something to be hidden away and ignored and maybe prosecuted if it gets too inconvenient for them, but CK:D depicts it this way not as a handout to conservatives but as an accurate depiction of history without commentary.

So TL;DR: gay people are people and different people are different and that's okay

It's worth mentioning that this sort of thinking gets really close to "there are good ones and bad ones" in some people's minds. IMO there's a lot of representation for the "non-normal" queers because they are the most vulnerable and because it needs to be clear that it's a package deal. People don't get to draw the line in places like "gays are okay but trans people are icky", and unofficially supporting mindsets like that would legitimize disgust-based morality.

People need to learn the lesson that others inherently deserve rights and respect regardless of their own personal feelings, otherwise we're just going to be fighting this battle over and over again for each minority group.

Something something dragon age something something concord.

Sprinkle in some pointless complaints about The Last Jedi and you have a full chud comment.

Baldur's Gate 3? But you have to try pretty hard to have gay sex... I've heard.

The guy has always been a piece of shit so I’m glad more people are learning this.

The game has a gay romance option, which is something that you can unlock over the course of the game with the right dialogue options and is fairly tastefully done. The game is very intent on being a 1403 simulator and the characters are all written with that in mind, but it's nice that the game recognises that gay people would have existed regardless of the cultural attitudes at the time.

I think his comments refer to the implementation of the romance in the way that it doesn't feel like it was put there so the studio could boast about how progressive they are.

In the first game everyone is assumed to be straight, and your character receives a stat boost from having sex, which sometimes happens in the story, but mostly will happen at "bathhouses", i.e. with prostitutes.

The exclusively female bathhouses, and the stat boost, persist in the second game, but there is an option relatively early in the game for your (male) character to start a gay romance with an important, recurring character.

I didn't follow through with that, but I was very pleasantly surprised to see it - both characters are sort of supposed to be womanizers, but it makes sense in the context of the story that they could discover feelings for eachother. It's up to you whether your character has a childhood sweetheart feminine love interest at home or not (from the previous game), but other than this relatively unimportant detail (beyond the roleplaying of it), the gay romance appears to be arguably the most significant romance in the game.

All that said, the game director who speaks is an asshole. Given that, I was pleasantly surprised at how "woke" KCD2 actually is. Guess he might has a different idea of "woke" than the rest of us, e.g. more "female ghost busters movie", less "gay representation".

Based upon the comments here it looks like no one here has played it.