chapotraphouse

the protestors

It needs to be made clear; The insurgents were a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the student movement, a few hundred, maybe a few thousand people out of hundreds of thousands of activists across the country. They were not at all representative of the '89 protest movement. Chai Ling wasn't a protest leader, she was just some CIA backed asshole and she and her goons bullied their way up to the PA and took it over. They did not represent the student movement or Tianamen Square. It must be stressed that the movement was mostly in opposition to Dengist market liberalization. Folks wanted to preserve communism against marketization of the economy. A secondary factor was a desire to create a more permissive social environment that reflected communist views of gender equality and allowed young people more freedom to express themsevles. Again, not because of government repression, but because they viewed contemporary chinese culture as very staid and conservative in a way that was not in line with their communist values.

To quote one of the protest leaders "What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes" - Chai Ling

By the way, that person is alive and well running a firm that fires people for not praying at work.

Wait, you mean the ebil CCP didn't send her to a camp??

What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed

Sounds like starting shit

By the way, that person is alive and well running a firm that fires people for not praying at work.

It's always the fucking Christians

To quote one of the protest leaders "What we actually are hoping for is bloodshed, the moment when the government is ready to brazenly butcher the people. Only when the Square is awash with blood will the people of China open their eyes" - Chai Ling

This only works when the people also think it was unjustified.

Every revolution in history has one of these instigating moments, including colour revolutions. Most recently Ukraine's moment in 2014 was the sussy sniper moment that has all kinds of evidence pointing towards far right shooters being involved and covered up. Even the February Revolution had a moment like this when the palace guard shot all the unarmed protestors.

The key point is that it's unarmed protestors that didn't deserve it. When it's a situation where people understandable grit their teeth and say "yeaaaaaah but the protestors hung cops and burned them alive" it doesn't work.

The people need to be enraged and believe the government NEEDS to be overthrown for it to work, if people think the protestors kinda brought it on themselves they don't enrage in the same way. The CIA and fascists pull these false flags off all the time, I can't think of a single incident in history where the left has.

Chai Ling is great, there is a lot more from that interview where she just openly displays what an unhinged monster she is, like when she adds to that part that the students are stupid and unworthy of her sacrifice, which is why she plans to escape (and though she didn't leave quite as quickly as she seemed to plan, she did leave quickly enough that she wasn't around for when the "massacre" would have happened)

Oh! And it's also important to note that it was her interviews with western outlets following fleeing the conflict that produced the "tanks mulching corpses" story

The only famous video/image 99.9% of all Americans see of it is tank man NOT getting run over by a tank, and even then so many of them will be like “um yeah you don’t want to know what happens after the video cuts off” but the full video DOESNT CUT OFF AND HE JUST WALKS AWAY UNHARMED.

The ones that have seen the full thing all say "but then he was disappeared afterwards" with no evidence and everyone just totally believes it because they just believe that's what China does.

Yeah, a bunch of people run up and push him out of hte way of the tanks. And no one ever talks about how he climbed up on to the tank to have a chat with the tank commander, then climbed down, and absolutely nothing happened to him. Imagine climbing on to a cop MRAP or APC in the US.

My headcannon is that the tank commander was his kid and he climbed up there to discuss what they were having for dinner.

This is my go to for the power of propaganda but it only works in person. It's "Do you know what happened to the Tank Man at Tienanman Square?" People almost always answer that he was run over. The response is great because while we don't know exactly what happened to him we know one thing for certain; he was not run over. That's the one thing we can say for sure and its the one thing they believe happened through the power of propaganda.

The fact that most Americans just assume tank man got run over and killed even after seeing part of the video of it is what genuinely drives me insane. Like the rest of the video is readily available bro you can see him walk away

Saddam's shredder?!?!?! I am too young to remember Saddam, please elaborate

This is potentially a good starting point for exposing the greater mythology about the event.

Ask if the person you're speaking with thinks the tank man was ran over.

1. If they say yes, pull up the video, and ask if that makes them wonder what else about the incident has been mythologized. If they can admit they bought some BS you can work with them, if they dig in ("oh I'm sure something sinister happened to him later") you're wasting your time.
2. If they say no, ask why a column of tanks was so deferential with that one guy when the story goes that there was an unprompted slaughter going on elsewhere. You can talk about how the event escalated, who was escalating, etc.

Oh god this entire thread is full of gems

These people are not socialists. It’s all just right wing agitprop. It’s extremely obvious.

I assume hexbear is just the russian troll factory.

I can read Russian and I sometimes read Russian media and it uses almost exactly the same topics for their people. There is a new one that they started to repeat recently and it’s that Zelensky is an illegitimate president, because his term has ened.

It’s weird that those forums are in English, reading the insane takes and rhetoric. I also noticed many of the accounts are just prolific posters, making the community seem small to me. Also saw an account with a trans flag, which is surprising they would accommodate such a person or such a person would have those weird views on lemmygrad.

The utility is that they use hexbear and .ml as intro exercises before they promote the trolls to Facebook or reddit.

Last part is true and even more insane/sad because these people are all terminally online gossip mongers that Pol Pot would have immediately executed.

You own a computer? You don’t work in the fields? You wear glasses?

Yep, literally executed.

They exist in a blissful eternal present where there is no context, no action and reaction, only the gentle lapping of waves and the shade of the coconut tree