this post was submitted on 23 May 2025
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[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 36 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

The first and central provision of the bill is the requirement for tracking technology to be embedded in any high-end processor module or device that falls under the U.S. export restrictions.

As a coder with some hardware awareness, I find the concept laughable.

How does he think they (read: the Taiwanese, if they are willing to) would go about doing it?

Add a GPS receiver onto every GPU? Add an inertial navigation module to every GPU? Add a radio to every GPU? :D

The poor politician needs a technically competent advisor forced on him. To make him aware (preferably in the most blunt way) of real possibilities in the real world.

In the real world, you can prevent a chip from knowing where it's running and you can't add random shit onto a chip, and if someone does, you can stop buying bugged hardware or prevent that random addition from getting a reading.

[–] Rin@lemm.ee 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Taiwanese

AMD & Nvidia are American companies, for better or worse. The Taiwanese just make the chips, they don't actually decide what they look like...

Add a GPS receiver onto every GPU? Add an inertial navigation module to every GPU? Add a radio to every GPU? :D

if it's possible, which I agree with you, is highly unlikely, i'd assume it'd be something like html canvas fingerprinting. Rather than adding more stuff to the gpu, the gpu could be made to generate a specific fingerprint. I recon it'd be a very easy task for the hardware vendors.

Heck, there might be other ways we don't even know yet, kinda like the glowy ethernet port. I could see that working very easily in conjunction to the GPU.

In the real world, you can prevent a chip from knowing where it's running and you can't add random shit onto a chip, and if someone does, you can stop buying bugged hardware or prevent that random addition from getting a reading.

please read up on intel management engine and amd's equivelent. That shit runs on your system in ring minus 3. Oh yeah, ARM also has something similar.

China is also making it's own x86 cpus, but I bet they're laced with more spyware than the above.

You honestly have virtually 0 other cpu options. Everything is bugged... Who would you buy from in this case? It's virtually unavoidable :/

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

please read up on intel management engine

I'm already familiar with it. On the systems I buy and intall, if they are Intel based, ME gets disabled since I haven't found a reasonable use for it.

Oh yeah, ARM also has something similar.

Since this is more relevant to me (numerically, most of the systems that I install are Raspberry Pi based robots), I'm happy to announce that TrustZone is not supported on Pi 4 (I haven't checked about other models). I haven't tested, however - don't trust my word.

Who would you buy from in this case?

From the Raspberry Pi Foundation, who are doubtless ordering silicon from TSMC for the Pico series and ready-made CPUs for their bigger products, and various other services from other companies. If they didn't exist, I would likely fall back on RockChip based products from China.

https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/nsaant/firewalk/index.htm

Wow. :) Neat trick. (Would be revealed in competent hands, though. Snap an X-ray photo and find excess electronics in the socket.)

However, a radio transceiver is an extremely poor candidate for embedding on a chip. It's good for bugging boards, not chips.

[–] Rin@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

ME gets disabled

I didn't know you could disable it. I figured it was very impractical or near impossible to do. how did you do it?

Raspberry Pi Foundation

I'm not going to lie, raspberry pis are a good candidate for a desktop but they're still very underpowered compared to modern computers. That's my only critcism. But yes, i'm not sure if there's any spookware on any of the raspberry pis.

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

how did you do it?

In the BIOS options of that specific server (nothing fancy, a generic Dell with some Xeon processor) the option to enable/disable ME was just plainly offered.

Chipset features > Intel AMT (active management technology) > disable (or something similar, my memory is a bit fuzzy). I researched the option, got worried about the outcomes if someone learned to exploit it, and made it a policy of turning it off. It was about 2 years ago.

P.S.

I'm sure there exist tools for the really security-conscious folks to verify whether ME has become disabled, but I was installing a boring warehouse system, so I didn't check.

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[–] PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago

If politicians had advisors then how would they justify doing the dumb shit their owners want them to, then they can't plead ignorance.

[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

How about locking all the advanced functions behind a hardware lock that requires an online key to unlock? Besides getting an IP address for geolocation, this approach would enable manufacturers to put a subscription on the features as well. Require users to provide a government issued ID that matches the name on the credit card used.

VPN! I hear you cry. But the driver is already running pretty close to the hardware, so good luck hiding a VPN client.

So while you can't guarantee a street address accuracy, you can get country and overall regional subdivision.

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

But who would buy such hardware? :)

so good luck hiding a VPN client.

In my imagination, there is no VPN client. The whole network is behind a VPN router and the internet gateway is where it needs to be.

[–] Darkard@lemmy.world 208 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Between this, the tarrifs and the brain drain, why would any manufacturers consider operating in the US anymore?

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 94 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

They'll still want access to Americans coz there are profits to be had, and they can price gouge under a fascist kleptocracy many orders of magnitude harder than elsewhere.

What they don't understand is that the fascist leadership will backstab many/most of them eventually, especially if they possess any moral fiber whatsoever. Luckily for them, capitalism has already purged corporate leadership of morality and ethics.

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[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 36 points 4 days ago (24 children)

There's no real push for that to happen. This is about crashing an economy, stealing wealth and creating a a massive almost slave labor class at the bottom.

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[–] toastmeister@lemmy.ca 10 points 3 days ago

Finally my Intel stock will rise. This will definitely force Nvidia GPU to be manufactured in the US with always on DRM.

[–] centof@lemm.ee 124 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Ah yes let's try to stifle Chinese innovation by ... checks notes ... expanding our surveillance state. Usually we are the ones calling China a surveillance state, but it's fine(it's not) once we do it.

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 45 points 4 days ago

There is nothing more American than hipocracy my friend

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 9 points 4 days ago

You joke, but western governments regularly pull the "our surveillance is good because we aren't an authoritarian regime" trope.

[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 21 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Why do gpus need geo tracking? They're usually pretty stationary right?

[–] Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Because China supposedly used Nvidia cards to train DeepSeek, which blew all of the US AI out of the water. And apparently that raised some eyebrows, because Nvidia wasn’t supposed to be selling to China (free market, right?). Since China was eating big tech’s lunch, they cried to republicans (and gave them a bunch of reelection money) and now we have this bill. The point is to be able to remotely disable cards if they’re outside of their sale region.

[–] weirdboy@lemm.ee 9 points 3 days ago

Such a well-conceived feature could never possibly be abused for unintended purposes.

Laughs in Faraday.

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 68 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Senator Tom Cotton

Ah. Yeah, that tracks.

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[–] NGC2346@sh.itjust.works 31 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

How is this even legal? I am not even american nor living there, so how would the US be allowed to operate massive and unregulated surveillance through GPUs ?

The US is becoming worse than those they call villain.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago

How is this even legal?

That's the neat part, if it isn't no one will enforce it or protect you.

[–] twice_hatch@midwest.social 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The US has very low engagement of its voters, so even things that are illegal are starting to happen regularly.

It's the same as so many countries, once a few rich guys get into power, as long as the guys with guns will take their money, it doesn't really matter what want, the government gets captured and corrupted.

There's ways to fight it but it's a slog. I might give up. It's not my job to fix it, fixing things doesn't pay.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 days ago

If you're in Europe I'm pretty sure those chips would violate the hell out of the GDPR and as such can't be sold there.

Even then, as posted in a different too level comment, this is just too easy to fake, or block.

It's an idiot law for idiots

[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 57 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Oh Senator Know-Nothing....

What are you going to do about firewalls and air-gapped networks? JFK you stupid asshole... GTFO

[–] d00ery@lemmy.world 52 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Next up GPUs require always-on connections and Nvidia requires a monthly subscription to pay for that.

[–] schema@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

For just $19.99 a month you can have us track your GPU*, or choose the premium ad-free upgrade for just $149.99 a months, so you can enjoy your favorite games without ad breakes.

^^^* ^^^failure ^^^to ^^^comply ^^^will ^^^be ^^^punished ^^^by ^^^deportation

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[–] RoidingOldMan@lemmy.world 47 points 4 days ago (2 children)

This is absolutely insane and no one will want to buy those GPUs.

[–] Yttra@lemmy.world 35 points 4 days ago

Unless, of course, they're in all the GPUs that people want.

...It's unfortunately more likely that the majority of people won't notice or care, though.

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[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Senator Tom Cotton's legislation seeks to "prevent advanced ~~American~~ TAIWANESE chips from falling into the hands of adversaries like Communist China."

FTFY

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 24 points 4 days ago

Yeah that is fun and all but I can at least guarantee you that that shit won't fly in Europe, and likely neither in Canada. I can only imagine other countries will be penning their own laws outlawing this.

So tech giants then have the option to either go for separate chipsets for those countries or stip selling there.

Also, how do you want to implement this? Have the GPU request GPS data from the computer? That won't be hard to forgr., but let's say you ge that, then what?

You need to send that info somewhere or it'll be useless. How? Over the Internet? Ahw, my firewall told you to go fuck yourself. Over its own GPS line? A little bit of aluminum foil can do miracles.

So what are you going to do then? Require an active internet connection for your GPU to work? Bwhahahahha. Have you seen gamers responses to games that require active internet connections to play? You won't sell shit.

This is again a law designed by absolutely.emoty headed idiots tompleae some other empty headed idiots.

[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 43 points 5 days ago

Why would they make their own products illegal in Europe?

[–] thorhop@sopuli.xyz 38 points 4 days ago (2 children)

...okay, so invest in Chinese GPU companies? Invest in Chinese GPU companies.

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[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 32 points 5 days ago (1 children)
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[–] andybytes@programming.dev 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Capitalism is a system of whores. And there's nothing wrong with whores, but a whore is a whore. Good luck. It's going to be like trying to hold a bar of soap that's slipping out of your hands. You can keep grabbing at it, but it's just going to keep slipping. I just recall when America leaked nuclear secrets because soldiers were using a private private flashcard program and they forgot to check mark the box that said private. And so they ended up leaking all these secrets all over the internet. And let's not forget. The open source information that was used from some snot-nosed person on an osint account on twitter for targeting a supposed underground base, that cost the lives of innocent civilians via the Palantir and Peter Thiel's stupid AI. They did not get an underground base. They just wasted millions of dollars on something that wasn't there.

It's like their plans are dystopic and terrifying, but they're not going to be able to implement them in a way that's worth a damn. And also, their actual product that they produce is so stupid that it's even more terrifying than the original idea. It's just straight up fucking madness. It's like, look mom, no hands. Then you fall off the goddamn bike and you're sitting there crying.

This still remains. There is so much corruption and greed in this country that we can't even function as an empire. We can't even get a chip's factory figured out. We don't make shit. Everybody in this country is so goddamn lazy and stupid. I can't even find a noble cause because I feel like I'm just enabling stupid people. I'm sure we just operate off of bare necessities. Like the need to just stay alive one more day. But it gets to the point where it's like, what's the fucking point? This country is nonsensical. It's absurd. It's laughable. It's weak. It's limp dicked. And this happened way before Joe Biden or Trump. This has been a continuation ever since I've been alive for 40 fucking dumb ass years.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

What the fuck is your metaphor with whores all about??

[–] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago (6 children)

Yeah right, a couple of my good friends used to be sex workers so

but a whore is a whore

just seems ignorant and misogynist to me.

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[–] SomeRandomNoob@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And how do they plan to do this? even if they add (GPS) tracking hardware the Chinese will just cut the connection to the Antenna and the GPU is gone. If they do it in software (like driver) it will just be patched out.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 10 points 4 days ago

Sure, but now a new company selling Geo tracking shit for GPUs is making billions per year. Problem solved!

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago

Adversaries who are being treated to lower tarriffs than allies.

Cooked country.

[–] LostXOR@fedia.io 17 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I can't imagine this would be effective at all. Assuming it uses GPS, big datacenters could simply spoof the GPS signal, and consumers could block the GPU from receiving the signal (a fully metal PC case is almost a Faraday cage already).

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[–] matmarspace@programming.dev 11 points 4 days ago

Bruh... Literally 1984

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