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Women gamers boycott global esports tournament over trans ban (www.advocate.com)

submitted 4 days ago by squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/ghazi@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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Several teams of female gamers have dropped out of the Dead by Daylight Women's World Cup after trans women were banned.

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 177 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

"We recognize, respect, and value the diversity of identities within the Dead by Daylight community and within gaming as a whole," the statement continues. "Trans women are an important part of the scene and have participated in our previous tournaments, where they have always been welcomed and respected. Their presence and contributions have never been questioned, nor has there ever been any discriminatory stance against them."

The statement says the decision to ban trans women "was based solely on technical and operational limitations."

It's notoriously technically difficult to just do nothing and allow trans women to play video games. Basically can't be done, except in every previous year.

What a stinking heap of bullshit.

[–] trslim@pawb.social 42 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Seperate gendered esports makes zero fuckin sense what the actual fuck.

[–] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 18 points 4 days ago (8 children)

I also exists for chess for example and makes a lot of sense. If one gender is vastly underrepresented, giving them a separate competition helps them succeed at all.

In most sports the male competition is an actually open competition for all genders.

[–] WhiteRabbit_33@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago

Adding onto this, it's also for helping foster community among marginalized groups who are all passionate about the same thing. It's hard to develop that community when you don't see other people from that group in the sport or hobby you're in.

Creating women only competitions is a way to connect people to help them foster that community and bring other women into the sport so that one day, it won't just be a male dominated sport.

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[–] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

What the fuck does gender or sex have to do with esports? This is just another insecure misogynist skill issue thing like every other competition setting where a man once lost to a woman. So fucking stupid.

[–] ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

chess has a separate women’s division… but they consistently rank lower than men and if it was mixed there would be no women playing at top level matches….
there’s also a separate Grand Master and Women’s Grand Master titles… women can become GM’s but they typically don’t….
i imagine the difference is cultural and comes down to how they’re raised….

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It's not a matter of ability, but instead comes down to a numbers game. There are significantly more men who play chess, so they will be overrepresented at high levels of play while women will be underrepresented.

You see it in many, many non-physical sports. Chess, e-sports, professional poker, etc.

It's anecdotal, but I myself used to participate in a niche board sport at a professional level. The skill gaps between men and women at the top level is enormous. The boards are electric, so there is little physical sex based advantage, if anything women's lower centers of gravity is a plus, but there are just significantly fewer women who race competitively. This is evidenced even further by the fact that each of the women at the top level have tremendous skill gaps between one another when compared to the men.

Ultimately, the more competitors you have in any given bracket, the higher the skill ceiling will be pushed.

[–] stray@pawb.social 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's that and also cultural biases getting into your head. If researchers give women and POCs a math test they do fine. If they give them the same math test but frame it like they want to see how their scores come out vs white men they do much worse. The pressure and judgement gets to you and makes you perform poorly even if no one is directly saying you suck.

[–] ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 23 hours ago

i did end my conjecture with “cultural”….
i think it’s more along the lines of “girls play with dolls, boys play with chess and guns” cultural thing….

[–] Punk_face@lemmy.zip 110 points 4 days ago (11 children)

What the hell does gender have to do with gaming?!? There is no inherently gender-based advantage on either end! So stupid…

[–] FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com 97 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I can see having a women’s league being valuable to foster a safe space outside of the misogynistic dude bro culture that’s so prevalent in gaming, but that’s a space trans women need access too just as much if not more than cis women.

[–] JillyB@beehaw.org 24 points 4 days ago

Exactly. I know chess has women-only events and open events. There is no men's event. There just wouldn't be any women if a space weren't dedicated to women. The culture is so male dominated that it's needed with no respect to advantage. I imagine e-sports is the same way.

[–] ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com 30 points 4 days ago

The goal is to eliminate trans people by isolating them and excluding them from society.

[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 18 points 4 days ago

It's similar to women's only chess championships. Think of it sort of like an affirmative action type of thing, where the misogyny that's prevalent in a particular pursuit causes women to be disproportionately underrepresented.

That makes this decision even more galling to me.

[–] zurohki@aussie.zone 22 points 4 days ago

Being male is a huge advantage when gaming - I don't know how I'd even game without both hands on the keyboard and controlling the mouse with my dick.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yeah, this is infuriating.

I did Karate for a decade, went to a number of tournaments, and I'm a giant gamer dork.

Yes, in combat sports, there are legitimate arguments one can make that defining some kind of category delineation based on bone/muscle density from your biology makes roughly as much sense as weight classes... though I can say that only time I have ever been actually, fully KO'd was from a woman, roughly the same age/weight as myself, landing a roundhouse kick directly on my temple (side of my head).

But... keyboard combat? No. Makes no fucking sense at all.

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[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 13 points 3 days ago

"Having two X chromosomes makes you worse at video games," say Dead by Daylight Women's World Cup organizers

[–] VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 4 days ago (10 children)

Okay, what's the excuse for the tournament's actions?

Are they claiming a Y chromosome now unlocks special gaming abilities when activated with Mtn Dew and Doritos?

[–] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Don't forget that also.... There are cis women with y chromosomes. There are cis men without. There are intersex people.

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[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago

I think they're trying to promote women in sports, and some idiot decided that a male player might enter the comp looking for easy wins against a smaller pool of players.

Its a compete failure to read the room, but that's my guess as to how they ended up here.

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[–] abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 54 points 4 days ago (2 children)

You know, I knew this day would come. I knew we would reach the point where we would ban trans women from esports.

Because again it's never about any advantages trans women have.

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[–] Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 4 days ago

"for technical and operational reasons" my elbow

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 32 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

Doesn't this ban imply the creators believe trans women are the ideal form of gamers since the only active reason to ban them was if they were physically superior at playing video games to both men and women? Otherwise why would it matter?

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[–] thingAmaBob@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (3 children)

The statement says the decision to ban trans women "was based solely on technical and operational limitations."

"In a global online tournament, we do not have reliable tools to ensure transparency and verification for every participant. For this reason, we had to make decisions under uncertainty, relying instead on the trust we place in team leaders and their players," it says. "... This situation does not reflect a lack of willingness to be inclusive, but rather the absence of adequate mechanisms to manage verification in a fair, safe, and respectful manner for all participants."

So, WTF does this even mean? I don’t watch e-sports, but are leagues sometimes separated by gender? If so, why? I always assumed there were mixed teams, since gender or sex in this realm is 100% irrelevant when it comes to skill.

Either way, it’s complete bullshit.

[–] pupbiru@aussie.zone 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

in the same way that engineering disciplines often provide priority to women because it’s hard af for them in the discipline not for any good reason but just because the industry is misogynistic af

being a women and a gamer is far more toxic than being a man and a gamer, and that drives away a lot of women who may have been the best, and men don’t have that same hindrance just by virtue of their gender

id argue too that anyone claiming to be trans probably has similar levels of toxicity, and therefor it shouldn’t be an issue: if the division is about encouraging diversity to combat toxicity, who cares if that toxicity comes from transphobia or misogyny

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 days ago

Women are generally underrepresented in esports, so it makes sense to have a women's division to foster interest and give them a community of their own in a male-dominated field. Of course, the arguments for barring trans women are even more specious than in contact sports

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[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Okay. If a few trans “imposters” slip through and get into tournaments lying about their status…

So what?

Like, what’s the risk? Let’s say a guy slips into the girls league, and… plays the game? If they’re being a jerk about it, well, there’s your red flag to ban them.

I don’t see why this is such an existential issue.

[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 4 days ago

That is probably the worst community to do bigot shit like this too. Most DBD players I know are very based and inclusive

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Haha was about to literally buy the game on Steam, bullet dodged.

[–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Do the tournament organizers have anything to do with the game devs?

[–] cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Devs shouldn't allow it to be official if they do this, send takedown notices.

Saying trans people can't play pro video games is like saying people from Latin America can't play sportsball(kicking edition)

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[–] Sunshine@piefed.ca 17 points 4 days ago

Boycott bigots!

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 16 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Men are naturally more inclined to videogaming, it’s in their DNA after thousands of years of evolution. It’s unfair for real bioorganic females to compete against men’s superior strength to overcome the physical resistance of cherry mx red keys.

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[–] AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Dead by Daylight gamers showing more intersection and solidarity than other esport scenes.

Edit: yikes

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[–] SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org 12 points 4 days ago

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