this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2026
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Europe

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 28 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I think that European politicians talking about dissolving Europe should be considered traitors. Every single time when something leaks about politicians or influencers having weird positive opinions on Russia, it turns out they've been paid to do so.

Unite Europe, it's possibly the last bastion against fascism

what do we do with traitors?

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 60 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Well, then Poland should quickly order more US tanks, just like Denmark recently ordered more F-35 to show what they think of the US threats...

I still don't know if it's funny or sad how always those loudly talking are then competing on who can kiss the US' ass better.

[–] Pringles@sopuli.xyz 29 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They also ordered 500 Korean tanks. Diversification is a thing, you know.

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's not so much done for diversification but geography and economics.

Poland has regions where -just like in Ukraine- the average Western tank is at times to heavy to operate properly. The K2 is more than 10 tons lighter and Poland scrapped several original requirements to keep it that light because that's the whole point. Also the K2PL variant additionally comes with (partly) modular composite armor.

And Poland wants domestic production (and the neccessary tech transfer to facilitate it). Something that South Korea is allowing for better footing in the wider European market.

That doesn't make the decision for US Abrams as the main tank better.

[–] lauha@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You say it is not diversification and the describe another kind of diversification.

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago

I said that diversification isn't the goal. They have geographic and economic reasons. Actual diversification in military equipment for the sake of it is stupid because the most important thing in war (and the actual much bigger cost) is logistics.

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[–] saimen@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Didn't it also became public the US could remotely "turn off" these F-35?

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

As far as I understand it, this is a (social) media exaggeration. But a lot of the F-35's capabilities, in particular the stealth and networking that are the main selling point, depend on constant adaptions and updates of the electronic systems.

Sure, we can talk about conspiracy theories of a possible killswitch backdoor hidden in the code. But that wouldn't even be F-35 specific. The more interesting aspect is logistics/spares and software updates for that very high-maintenance jet with modern electronics.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I still don’t know if it’s funny or sad how

It's neither, it's infuriating, especially when you were against F-35 from the beginning.

[–] rzadkie@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

And f35s and apaches/blackhawks/chinooks (they can't decide the way in which we'll be fucked) and patriots and drones. And this is only the things i remember rn. They also want to get 250 strykers for free casue why not, we already have 4 types of MBTs so second wheeled APC wont make a differnce! Oh, and palantir!

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[–] Foni@piefed.zip 26 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This must be the tenth time a European leader has said something like this. PROPOSE SOMETHING CONCRETE, YOU MORONS. I'm not going to draft the treaty that puts that on paper; you do it, that's what you're paid for, you damn idiot.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 25 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They don't even need to propose anything, they already have all the rules in place. It's more about making all the leaders aggree that when Denmark will ask for help agains military invasion according to European agreements, the other counties wouldn't chicken out and try to appease a new dictator.
Spoiler: they will.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

already have all the rules in place.

Greenland is an EU overseas territory. There is no EU Article 42 defence. Denmark can still ask within Nato rules.

[–] fennesz12@feddit.dk 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I'm Danish, and I'd like to believe that the rest of EU would at least impose harsh sanctions, but I'm beginning to worry that there won't even be a strongly worded social media post.

[–] denmarkSuxxxx@sh.itjust.works -1 points 4 hours ago

yeah denmark isn't yours idiot

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Leader of my country already bent over backwards congratulating Glorious Leader on successful "special military operation" and all but wished him happy annexation

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm extremely confident in europe and the EU, it might be a bit late (hindsight is always easy but a decade in international politics isn't much) but I think there is a real "risk" that slowly we'll be the place to be and everyone else just a half-banana republic. Or so I feel.

[–] leavemealone@sh.itjust.works 27 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Please explain a bit more because I see Europe in real danger in the next decade. (Far right rising, usa, Russia, China wanting to weaken us)

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (3 children)

There are and have always been bizarre political currents in europe (like the extreme left, and the revolutionary left bombing stuff in the eighties just as an axample), but it's not like the USA where everything catches fire at once, we're 27+ countries and they all pull in different ways, so far right expansion is something not to take lightly, but it will not be a walk in the park subverting the EU (fascists tend to need a sort of quick power grab) even if it can happen in distinct countries.

I also believe the Kremlin is behind lots of those problems, amplifying them and sponsoring far right parties. And it seems those days will come to an end or at least be correctly countered and not welcomed with open arms like in the last 20-30+ years.

So I'm quite optimistic for the long haul, we got some 5-10 turbulent years ahead but I'm confident we'll survive mostly.

[–] msage@programming.dev 11 points 3 days ago (9 children)

What extreme left has been in Europe?

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Nothing organised but there are some people.

https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-italian-on-trial-over-attack-on-far-right-march/a-69168089

Don't expect to find unbiased reporting on this, the fact of the matter is someone who was likely her and her accomplices attacked and brutally beaten people who were most likely far right sympathizers going home from a Neo-Nazi-adjacent march to the brink of death.

[–] rzadkie@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's very generous to call a nazis attending annual nazi march "likely far right sympathizers going home from a Neo-Nazi-adjacent march"

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Poor innocent everyday workers that did nothing wrong and just regular good people like you and me were going home from some gathering the purpose of which you shouldn't worry about and please don't look into it, were suddenly and unprovokedly attacked by some evil people for reasons you also shouldn't look into, probably just because they're evil, so you need to give the government more power to do violence.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago
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[–] leavemealone@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 days ago

I see Russian hands everywhere too, not just politically but in cyber attacks and industrial sabotage. The problem is the USA who already light sabotaged us as allies are turning full blown hostile under trump. Economy is stable but industry and job market are declining fast and AI will break this even more (not only a European problem though.)

But nationalism rising is what makes me more afraid as I fear countries leaving Europe under false pretense due to corrupted politicians (or controlled/blackmailed by foreign powers). I fear what is happening in the USA becoming the norm.

[–] pendel@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Not gonna happen. The EU has a joint GDP as large as China but Europe is stuck in nationalism and not getting over its imperialist past in terms of mindset.

IMO all kids in the EU would need to learn native level English from kindergarten on next to their native tongue and English would need to become an official language next to the local language if applicable in all EU countries.

And then all administrative matters and everything would need to be bilingual. Then Europe could use its immense cultural heritage, history in unionizing, strong labor laws and social security networks (that should become EU wide) to attract skilled people.

But for that people would have to get over the idea that they are somehow superior to other cultures, which is not gonna happen, so an Indian software engineer will rather go somewhere else than e.g. Germany because they don’t want to be treated like shit.

its imperialist past in terms of mindset

is still viral.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

European Federation

Europa

Republic of Europe

Federation of Europe

I like it it. Just don't do United States of Europe. That would be crap.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join%2C_or_Die

It never is the full union from the start.

Join or Die

Unite or it's Finished

Same thing.

[–] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Europe's lemma is United in diversity. We could remain as separate sovereign states, you know.

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Depends on where you draw the line of "sovereign". You can't really have, for example, an independent military in any reasonable way if you're, idk, Belgium. But there is a sliding scale. The US, for example, is in theory just a highly integrated collection of loose states.

[–] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's what we had with NATO, and US ruined it. Make another NATO without them (with Canada).

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Well, there's NATO, but there's also the 414 Panzerbataillon/Tankbataljon. As I said, sliding scale.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I disagree. We need a united front against the US and other powers. Especially our outwards responses are mired in long discussions where every country needs to have a say. We need a federal or super-national entity that decides upon these things without requiring every grain of sand to have input.

If we remain sovereign states, we will never see ourselves as "Europeans" but "French", "German", "Slovakian", etc. We don't have a "European" passport and it shows. There is no European identity just a mashup of multiple countries that think about themselves first and Europe second.

[–] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We have a centralized place to take decisions: the European Council and Parliament.

And I (and many others) would not like to lose sovereignty just because the European government cannot coordinate our nations.

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[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 7 points 3 days ago

Yeah, sucks in many ways, but it is the only realistic way forward

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago

Shit I really don't want to agree with the militarists but... yea

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