I don't care what religion it is, I just want more holidays
this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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How about holidays because humans are living, breathing, thinking, emoting beings that need decent food, shelter, rest and recreation? The closing of businesses on at least one weekend day need not be religious. If we run oit for a day or two, we get some from a neighbor or are just out for a day or two?
hear me out, i may be less for adding more religious holidays.
this is based on trying to use b and h as a professional service. they close for EVERY Jewish holiday. there's so many of them. so many more then Christian holidays that others close for. AND they still close for those Christian holidays.
it makes them unpredictable and hard to use. if they also started taking off Muslim holidays they'd be closed every 2 days... that's just too much. i don't think we as a society can afford to take that many holidays.
it's very hard to explain to you boss why we have to delay because the partner we're contracted with is closed until Monday because of a holiday that your boss has never heard of.
This would be my argument for allowing people of various religions to take their religious holidays, but not require everyone to take them (if they don't want to).
So (and these will all be hypothetical because my knowledge of holidays across various religions is pretty poor -- sorry) :-
Imagine there are four main religions in the UK -- Potterism, Everdinery, Swannism and Sherlockian.
Potterism celebrates the 31st of July, 31st of October, the 2nd of May, the 1st of September and the 19th of September as its holy days.
Everdinery celebrates the 10th of March, the 20th of May, the 31st of August, the 9th of January and the 5th of July.
Swannism celebrates the 3rd to the 5th of May, the 10th of August, the 12th of September and the 12th of December.
And Sherlockian celebrates the 1st of February, the 9th of March, the 12th of June, the 24th of September and the 10th of October.
Along with all these, all four religions celebrate the 31st of December, the 1st of January and the 23rd of August. Just because.
(Really making this up as I ago along).
The celebrants of each religion can take their days off as a holiday (without using up their paid holiday allowance), but businesses do not have to close. Bank holidays become a thing of the past.
Schools ignore them, and school holidays are arranged around more sensible times (summer holidays, spring holidays, winter holidays).
Religion is taken out of public life more or less altogether.
Now I accept that in "real life" this will be more complicated, but businesses can adapt for Jewish, Muslim, Christian and other workers and would not need to shut down on such a wide scope
The only exception might still be Christmas, because that has become more of a secular thing than a religious one.
I listened to an interesting podcast about something like this, it might have been on 'cautionary tales '. Apparently at one point some Soviet area tried organising everyone's days off in shifts instead of everyone taking Sunday off and factories lying idle. Basically tho you actually loose a lot of the social value of days off if you don't get them at the same time as other people. Can't visit your family or friends unless they have the same day off as you, for example. And what if your kid's school's day off isn't the same as yours?
I can understand that argument.
But conversely if everyone is forced to take the same day, or days, then it entirely ignores the idea of different cultures.
In Islam their...... (sorry -- can't think of a better way to phrase this) their Sunday is Friday. So it is most likely that in a Muslim family most of them would want their rest day to be Friday.
Christians would take Sunday. The Jewish day of rest is Saturday.
Yeah -- there'd be allowances for schools, and teachers in state/secular schools.
I understand the friends problem, and it's something to work around, but as I said if you force every culture and every person into taking the same day just because one culture or one religion says "this is the day" then....... it seems somewhat dictatorial.
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I don't even want more holidays. I just want them spaced out better :)
(Every public holiday bar 1 occurs within 22 weeks and 1 day (December 25th to the 27th of May in this case).
They all occur within the last week of December, the first week of January and (generally) the first/second week of April.
How about instead of clumping them altogether, we get one every two months or so. That would be far better :)
This is how it is where I live, it's great. There's a holiday every month except for April and June, and in September there's two.
My da hosts a Bible study group in their home, and recently I glanced at a booked they were going through called "The War on Christianity" or some shit like that. I just gave a short laugh and said "Oooooh, you poor oppressed Christians!" before my mother gave me "the look" that said "I know how you feel, but please don't start shit right now."
These people have no idea what oppression is. They think that people having negative opinions of Christianity is "oppression". They think that folks fighting for abortion rights is "oppression" against Christians. They think that folks telling them that they gave no intention to get involved in their religion is "oppression".
They are still allowed to gather freely, to hold positions of power, own homes and businesses, proselytize, protest, etc.
They're just mad that they're finally being called out for their harmful, hateful, and bigoted viewpoints. It's "oppression" because they can't force everyone else to follow their rules.
100%. Very similar to "the war on men" or "the war on white people".
Don't make me give you "the look".
I was curious, so i googled. Was it The Global War on Christianity?
Christianity is illegal in parts of the world. I can understand why Christians in America would read a book about it
And in many parts of the world they are doing irreparable harm.
Plus, they only buy that book to feel sorry about themselves. US Christians have a persecution fetish.
all of these can be simultaneously true
Christmas is a European pagan tradition, really we base our holidays around seasons of which due to the importance of them also feature many religious events.
Or, you know, none of that bullshit? We could just let it slip back into the primordial muck with superstition and shitting into our bare hands... But, no. We like our invisible sky daddies and not being collectively intelligent. 🫥
shitting into our bare hands
That might have been just you, no one else was doing that
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Say this when it's a country's primary religion on the line, not when some minorities want equal rights for their religions.
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invisible sky daddies
Oh I am definitely using this phrase from now on. I've been using "imaginary friends" until now, but this is SO much better :)
My go to is “invisible sky pixie” because it replaces the image of a caring parental figure with a diminutive and capricious sprite.
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The Muslim Christian comparison doesn't really hold up, holy days they actually get off happen 2-3 times a year but Muslims have to pray five times a day every day. I would hope if a Christian or any other religion (or heck non religious students who need a mindfulness break) would be respected for a prayer break. Otherwise it would be unfair.
That said more holidays sounds great so by all means give us the Muslim ones off of school too 😎
You are missing the point.
Easter this year is the 31st of March.
The ENTIRE COUNTRY (the UK this is) will be forced to SHUT DOWN for the weekend, whether they are Christian or not. Banks. Businesses. Everything will close for the entire weekend.
But wait -- it gets worse.
The school year is split into three terms -- Winter, Spring and Summer. And because Easter is so early (because a bunny looked at a gopher's shadow or something) the Spring term starts in January (with the New Year) and ends on the 24th of March (I think). That's barely enough time to get kids settled in their classes. Then the summer term is like A BILLION WEEKS LONG because Easter is so early.
Then
when Easter is a lot later -- you get the two bank holidays in May (one of which is religious, one of which isn't) that fuck up the summer term and make it almost not worth going back for the one week before you are off again.
This is entirely because of Christian holy days
And on top of all this there is the fact we still keep "Sunday special" -- a day that only one religion gives a crap about. Thankfully we are getting over that and starting to treat Sunday like every other day of the week. But if you ask most people they think it should still be "a rest day" because it is Sunday.
This entire country bends over backwards to accommodate Christianity in everything it does, and yet the Little Englanders always feel Christians are hard-done by.
Well like I said I have no issues with the holidays being changed! Either adding more or changing the dates so everyone can celebrate their own religious or non religious traditions on the same days. Agree with you about Sundays too, nobody should be forced to work that day but otherwise I don't think it should be treated differently. I don't think that changes the leaving class to pray points though.
You entirely disagree with me about Sundays, as it turns out, but I can see how you could have misunderstood that :)
I think your anger is misplaced. We don't have to work every single day of the year.
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Christians by the bible and old customs are also supposed to pray in the morning noon and evening. Thats why the churches ring the bell at those times.
So it is only by not taking their religion all too serious anymore that christians dont ask for their noon prayer.
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I assume you're referring to Psalm 55. Psalm 55:16-19 (NLT):
But I will call on God,
and the Lord will rescue me.
Morning, noon, and night
I cry out in my distress,
and the Lord hears my voice.
He ransoms me and keeps me safe
from the battle waged against me,
though many still oppose me.
God, who has ruled forever,
will hear me and humble them.
That's not a mandate, it's a description of how often David prayed. But there is a mandate in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18:
Always be joyful. Never stop praying. Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.
God is always listening, and He doesn't like it when prayers (as in people who pray) babble just to check boxes. The same almost certainly applies to scheduled prayers. If there's a legitimate purpose, there's nothing wrong with that, but praying just because it's praying time doesn't make sense. Especially since we're supposed to keep the comms open all the time anyways.
Thanks, i thought it was explicitly stated.
Not sure how you are interpreting the Thessalonians verse, which EXPLICITLY says “never stop praying” as god doesn’t like it when people pray for no reason. Seems to me that, at least for this specific verse, this is exactly what god wants.
I didn't mean that was how I was interpreting Thessalonians. That bit instead stems from Jesus talking about how to pray. He said something along the lines of "don't babble like pagans, who think they'll be heard because of their many words."
"Never stop praying," depending on how you read it, either means "be praying at literally every moment," "never abandon the practice of prayer," or some more vague "be in the attitude of prayer all the time." I always thought it was the latter, as some translations say "pray without ceasing." The first just doesn't make sense. I'll have to do some more research later. But that's why I said "we're supposed to keep the comms open all the time anyways."
I'm back with more research. In the original Greek, the word used there was "adialeiptōs," which is typically translated as "without ceasing." Looking up its definition, I got "without intermission, incessantly, without ceasing." The word was also used as part of the following verses (KJV because it's a more direct translation):
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers (Romans 1:9)
We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father (1 Thessalonians 1:2)
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
And in adjective form:
that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. (Romans 9:2)
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day (2 Timothy 1:3)
The most common interpretation among theologians seems to be the "keep the comms open" kind of thing, but it looks like another valid interpretation, especially given that last verse, is more like "don't take any days off from prayer." Nor periods of the day. In other words, be praying a lot, and never pause that practice.
I know Catholics and Anglicans have liturgy of the hours, but based on what I learned in my studies they have never been mandatory save for priests and nuns! Contrasted with Islam where praying five times a day is one of the five pillars of the faith and salvation is seen as dependent on those.
For daily prayers, yes that is a daily occurance. We pray 5 times a day but only the afternoon prayers are something we'd need to take a break for.
But you can work around it and you might only need to take a 5 minute break once a day. So like the post and you have mentioned it's not that much of an interruption.
However, Fridays are a different story. We have to go our sermon which might be an hour so. In the US Saturday+Sundays are off so that's not something that would interfere with a work/school schedule. Personally, in our high school we held our own prayers after school on Fridays. But I know for a fact that didn't work for all my Muslim peers.
Holidays are another issue, we'd need to take 2 days off a year to observe our holidays. I wouldn't go as far as so say this is systemic oppression. You just get an excused absence or use pto lol.
Where it would become a problem is if your requests to take off work/school were to be denied. But thankfully that isn't usually an issue in the US.
Besides, in some school districts non-Christian holidays are starting to become recognized and may already be off.
Overall there is a consistent minor friction causes by daily schedule differences. And especially in school a student may never even ask for accommodations for fear of being "different". Even though when you ask generally when you ask you will be accommodated.
Isn't Hanukkah more comparable to something like Pentecost in importance instead of Christmas? Meaning, not important at all to most of the modern day practioners. And the only reason why it is brought up so much is because it happens to somewhat coincide with Christmas so people can be inclusive with their happy holiday wishes.
Hanukkah isn't an important religious holiday, but it is an important cultural one. Partly because it's adjacent to Christmas (for north american Jews at least) and partly because the story occurred later on in Jewish history compared to much of the Holy texts.
I don't know anyone who takes days off work for Hanukkah, most just want to be home for sun down to light the candles.
I see your point but what if a Christian student would refuse to go to school on Sunday because of church? Would they even dare to ask for it?
I know of a rugby player who refuses to play on Sunday because it conflicts with his religious belief. and while it will not sound plausible that I can't remember his name, I swear I am not making it up.
But I think there is room for give and take -- Muslim students and kids aren't refusing to go to school. They are just being excused for prayers. So demanding to be let out of school all day would be overkill, don't you think?
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